Zanistor
Member
Thanks for the compliment! I'll try not to trash you as bad next timeI'll be there again. I love fighting good players
DOA5U ~Team BEST~ DOA5U Training on PSN/XBL
- Thread starter Prince Adon
- Start date
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
@Kohlrak
It's really not as tedious as you are making it sound. Have things set to normal hit then complete full strings while taking note of what happens. Then turn on counter hit / hi counter hit and do the same thing. There are visual differences between stuns so it shouldn't be hard to remember what move causes what type of stun and for how long. Just set things to Fastest SE to have an idea. Since you play Kokoro though fastest SE doesn't matter; I'll save you time and let you know all of your launchers are stagger-able except ones that are built in string like. , or ones that are set up with high pokes or .
Also no it is not necessary to write frame data down lol. I have not once done that. You just need to know the cutoff points for certain things. Here they are:
1.-6 to -7 is semi safe. This means you can use a neutral grab to punish if you feel like it. Remember I said you should link the animation to the frame data. What is significant here isn't the number it is what the number means. Kokoro's is -6 but I don't need to remember that number; What I need to remember is that last hit is semi safe. Nobody is blind so they can see the last hit of that string and say "OH that's semi safe! I should strike or use a neutral grab."
2. -8 or more is punishable. This means at the very least when these moves are done you can use to get a guaranteed punish. Again what's significant isn't is -19 or whatever, it's is punishable. Here are some other magic numbers for throw punishment for strike based characters like Kokoro: -11 or more ( punishable) and -13 or more ( punishable). You don't need to memorize any number. Just look at the move animation and ask yourself "Is it -8/11/13 or more?" and remember the action it is you must take when you see the move on the screen. This is only if you want to maximize your damage off of punishment. I personally just use / to punish anything I know is punishable because they are fast and reliable.
3. For moves that are frame advantage the same rule applies. You could actually remember how much frame advantage your moves give or you could just take a look at how the frame advantage affects your options. For example Kokoro's is +1 on block. You could remember that or you could commit to memory how the +1 affects Kokoro's initial pokes such as "After my beats everything except 10 frame jabs(The initial speed of a for some characters)." If you are unclear of what I mean by initial pokes I mean , and for every character. This is something you should commit to memory and again is not that tedious to do. Simply ask someone that plays the character or take 2 seconds in training mode to check.
As a general rule when it comes to frame advantage, If it is small advantage like +3 or so you should stick to your initial pokes as followups on the advantage. If It is double digit advantage you can start considering some of your moves that are 20+ frames to execute.
It's really not as tedious as you are making it sound. Have things set to normal hit then complete full strings while taking note of what happens. Then turn on counter hit / hi counter hit and do the same thing. There are visual differences between stuns so it shouldn't be hard to remember what move causes what type of stun and for how long. Just set things to Fastest SE to have an idea. Since you play Kokoro though fastest SE doesn't matter; I'll save you time and let you know all of your launchers are stagger-able except ones that are built in string like
. , or ones that are set up with high pokes or .Also no it is not necessary to write frame data down lol. I have not once done that. You just need to know the cutoff points for certain things. Here they are:
1.-6 to -7 is semi safe. This means you can use a neutral grab to punish if you feel like it. Remember I said you should link the animation to the frame data. What is significant here isn't the number it is what the number means. Kokoro's
is -6 but I don't need to remember that number; What I need to remember is that last hit is semi safe. Nobody is blind so they can see the last hit of that string and say "OH that's semi safe! I should strike or use a neutral grab."2. -8 or more is punishable. This means at the very least when these moves are done you can use
to get a guaranteed punish. Again what's significant isn't is -19 or whatever, it's is punishable. Here are some other magic numbers for throw punishment for strike based characters like Kokoro: -11 or more ( punishable) and -13 or more ( punishable). You don't need to memorize any number. Just look at the move animation and ask yourself "Is it -8/11/13 or more?" and remember the action it is you must take when you see the move on the screen. This is only if you want to maximize your damage off of punishment. I personally just use / to punish anything I know is punishable because they are fast and reliable.3. For moves that are frame advantage the same rule applies. You could actually remember how much frame advantage your moves give or you could just take a look at how the frame advantage affects your options. For example Kokoro's
is +1 on block. You could remember that or you could commit to memory how the +1 affects Kokoro's initial pokes such as "After my beats everything except 10 frame jabs(The initial speed of a for some characters)." If you are unclear of what I mean by initial pokes I mean , and for every character. This is something you should commit to memory and again is not that tedious to do. Simply ask someone that plays the character or take 2 seconds in training mode to check.As a general rule when it comes to frame advantage, If it is small advantage like +3 or so you should stick to your initial pokes as followups on the advantage. If It is double digit advantage you can start considering some of your moves that are 20+ frames to execute.
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You're not really explaining anything that I'm not already aware of. My point is that everyone who studies frame data in this game, uses the Move Details feature to study the numbers while observing the move animation. The most efficient way is to do everything required, NOT just one part or another.
Most who play this game are not as "proficient" as you claim. From the perspective of someone who knows this game, where it's meta, ruleset and punishment lies, most who play this game do not abide by most (if not all of it). Most playing online only know how to do set ups and combos, and critical bursts.
Read via quote, because this is what DOA online usually is.
I don't think our definitions of efficient are the same. I'm talking about getting more bang for the hours i'm investing.
For them to be not very proficient but still whooping me, what does that say about me? Surely they're not tournament level, but they can actually win matches, and they do so making me look horrible.
@Kohlrak
It's really not as tedious as you are making it sound. Have things set to normal hit then complete full strings while taking note of what happens. Then turn on counter hit / hi counter hit and do the same thing. There are visual differences between stuns so it shouldn't be hard to remember what move causes what type of stun and for how long. Just set things to Fastest SE to have an idea. Since you play Kokoro though fastest SE doesn't matter; I'll save you time and let you know all of your launchers are stagger-able except ones that are built in string like
Also no it is not necessary to write frame data down lol. I have not once done that. You just need to know the cutoff points for certain things. Here they are:
1.-6 to -7 is semi safe. This means you can use a neutral grab to punish if you feel like it. Remember I said you should link the animation to the frame data. What is significant here isn't the number it is what the number means. Kokoro's
2. -8 or more is punishable. This means at the very least when these moves are done you can use
3. For moves that are frame advantage the same rule applies. You could actually remember how much frame advantage your moves give or you could just take a look at how the frame advantage affects your options. For example Kokoro's
As a general rule when it comes to frame advantage, If it is small advantage like +3 or so you should stick to your initial pokes as followups on the advantage. If It is double digit advantage you can start considering some of your moves that are 20+ frames to execute.
Right, but i still need to look at the frame data and know the frame data to come to these conclusions. Writing down data and comparing isn't what bothers me the most. What bothers me the most is that I have to try out every move and look at all the different attributes (reach, etc, since the animation isn't very reliable at all [her 1P is a great example of that]). The problem is that
is actually , , and . Kokoro isn't bad at this, especially since so much is shared her doesn't need , or , because it's shared already with . However someone like Ayane, Kasumi, or Christie is a bit harder to break down, especially with their strings reaching out to BFE. I'm trying to efficiently learn Kokoro, or at least know how to efficiently learn her, so i can go ahead and try to learn the rest of the roster.Oh well, it would seem the only way would be to just do it and get it over with. I ended up running out of time to start tonight, but i'll get on it sometime tomorrow.
It means you're still learning. Most who play online a lot are either learning, or too self engrossed with their set ups and do not realize that a lot of what they do is telegraphed (and possibly fraudulent). Most will also abuse lag as well. Most also do not have fundamental qualities in their play either. Not everyone that plays online are dishonest like this, of course, some really are getting better.
I see a lot of this stuff when I watch various online matches, play random people (even some here at FSD).
I'm also not even talking about tournament level players. I'm talking about the general level of play (online).
Ael
Member
Join my lobby. Tenryuga plays Hayate a bit so maybe he can help you. I'll send you an invite now.
Just a reminder that I will be hosting a lobby on XBL this Saturday around 3pm Pacific time. It'll most likely be streamed. On Sunday I think I'll host a lobby on PSN. This session will not be streamed, and it'll likely be around the same time.
NinjaDon
Active Member
What time will the Sunday PSN lobby open for British Summer Time (GMT +01:00)?
I think 3pm my time is around 11pm your time.
Any. Hoping to help players learn and have fun.We wish to inspire you.
I might try to join on sunday, if I can work up the courage. You guys will want to tell me to go home and be a family man by the end.
Okay, I don't have work Saturday after all, so I should be good for that session. Monthly tourney on Sunday, though, so won't be there for that one.