The DOA5LR Mila General Discussion Thread

[Something-Unique]

See the thing is you're correct when it comes to one end of the argument. That's probably a fact. Then there's the other side of the argument where you're incorrect. That's also probably a fact. For example there's truth that the recent 1P/TDC~2P has no detrimental effect to Mila in the grand scheme of things. More so generic 1P as I explained above because at neutral she still has 2P and 2H+K. So I'm also in the camp that doesn't care as much and leaning more towards your point of view.

So let's get to the other side of the argument. People used to ask me the reasoning behind utilizing the feint cancels during oki and assumed it was a gimmick. As you can see in the explanation above its because it can't be beaten. The frame advantage is too big because your manipulating frames during tech and none of the options can be stepped. TDC~P+K blocked is also pseudo unsafe when blocked with much better reward/risk in favor of Mila. The no holes advantage from all options in the scenario give her more of the very thing you say makes her strong which is versatility. Another option to impose momentum while having numerous mixup options.

It now has a chink in the game plan because you lose momentum off of TDC~2P being -2 in LR instead of +2 like in Ultimate. Its the simple concept of when something gets taken away it effects something else. Character specialists are the one's who end up noticing this. This is the reason I pay absolutely zero attention to people with opinions that don't even use the character when a nerf hits. If you don't even understand how to gauge it how can you judge it. That's the reason I'm only writing this here as opposed to doing so in the FB group where I usually am since I'm never actually on the website. Since we play Mila its easier to discuss and understand things.

So yes she functions just fine with this minor nerf but the bigger picture is that these minor nerfs do add up in neutering options/versatility is what I'm saying and then before you know it has gotten to the point where what you used to say was minor becomes a big problem. Remember where at least seven consecutive nerfs now. 6T for example still has random whiffing problems now because they messed with it, tried to fix it and never properly did. Even the slightest slope can stunt your momentum now. That'd just an example of how problems add up.

To end this novel Mila is and will remain a top 5 character imo. Yes despite what seems like doom and gloom in this post I firmly believe that. For as long her damage output is still the highest with the exception of environmental specific stuff, her reset throws still exist for both standing and crouching scenarios, and her frame traps/okizeme are still virtually unmatched in comparison to anyone else she is still very potent. What makes it all so good is that all of the above is perpetual and flow together which is something few characters can do as opposed to being forced to rely on that one particular setup She remains of the few characters that can accomplish that. The ridiculous stun game and OH are just icing on the cake.

The verdict is still out on what exactly the changes to 4K are so I won't comment on its place yet.

 

[Argentus]

See the thing is you're correct when it comes to one end of the argument. That's probably a fact. Then there's the other side of the argument where you're incorrect. That's also probably a fact. For example there's truth that the recent 1P/TDC~2P has no detrimental effect to Mila in the grand scheme of things. More so generic 1P as I explained above because at neutral she still has 2P and 2H+K. So I'm also in the camp that doesn't care as much and leaning more towards your point of view.

So let's get to the other side of the argument. People used to ask me the reasoning behind utilizing the feint cancels during oki and assumed it was a gimmick. As you can see in the explanation above its because it can't be beaten. The frame advantage is too big because your manipulating frames during tech and none of the options can be stepped. TDC~P+K blocked is also pseudo unsafe when blocked with much better reward/risk in favor of Mila. The no holes advantage from all options in the scenario give her more of the very thing you say makes her strong which is versatility. Another option to impose momentum while having numerous mixup options.

It now has a chink in the game plan because you lose momentum off of TDC~2P being -2 in LR instead of +2 like in Ultimate. Its the simple concept of when something gets taken away it effects something else. Character specialists are the one's who end up noticing this. This is the reason I pay absolutely zero attention to people with opinions that don't even use the character when a nerf hits. If you don't even understand how to gauge it how can you judge it. That's the reason I'm only writing this here as opposed to doing so in the FB group where I usually am since I'm never actually on the website. Since we play Mila its easier to discuss and understand things.

So yes she functions just fine with this minor nerf but the bigger picture is that these minor nerfs do add up in neutering options/versatility is what I'm saying and then before you know it has gotten to the point where what you used to say was minor becomes a big problem. Remember where at least seven consecutive nerfs now. 6T for example still has random whiffing problems now because they messed with it, tried to fix it and never properly did. Even the slightest slope can stunt your momentum now. That'd just an example of how problems add up.

To end this novel Mila is and will remain a top 5 character imo. Yes despite what seems like doom and gloom in this post I firmly believe that. For as long her damage output is still the highest with the exception of environmental specific stuff, her reset throws still exist for both standing and crouching scenarios, and her frame traps/okizeme are still virtually unmatched in comparison to anyone else she is still very potent. What makes it all so good is that all of the above is perpetual and flow together which is something few characters can do as opposed to being forced to rely on that one particular setup She remains of the few characters that can accomplish that. The ridiculous stun game and OH are just icing on the cake.

The verdict is still out on what exactly the changes to 4K are so I won't comment on its place yet.

Gah still learning technical talk.

I get the gist though.

Not sure what else to say about it. Doesn't hurt Mila in the long run, but it will screw over a lot of people's specific gameplans.

What I want to know is what that "cancel mount with p and k" amounts to. That's what I'm most interested in. Do P or K just ALSO cause feint, or do we now get to cancel mount straight into a regular punch or kick INSTEAD of feinting first?

4k I really only use for two things. 1) To push people away when they are rushing, as a panic button, and 2) To go into mount/feint. So not sure how the reduced stun is gonna affect either one of those.

 

[XZero264]

Right now we cancel Takedown with H then have to be quick about what we want to use. P, K, 2P, or P+K look like they are becoming the H cancel instead of outright pressing H. This change seems in line with Kasumi's teleporting change where she now only has to hit 6 instead of 6P+K to use her forward moving teleport.
They want the characters to be easier to play, understandable but I also hope they keep the old method for those who are used to it.

Oh, and vanilla 4K was pretty awesome.

 

[synce]

To end this novel Mila is and will remain a top 5 character imo. Yes despite what seems like doom and gloom in this post I firmly believe that. For as long her damage output is still the highest with the exception of environmental specific stuff, her reset throws still exist for both standing and crouching scenarios, and her frame traps/okizeme are still virtually unmatched in comparison to anyone else she is still very potent. What makes it all so good is that all of the above is perpetual and flow together which is something few characters can do as opposed to being forced to rely on that one particular setup She remains of the few characters that can accomplish that. The ridiculous stun game and OH are just icing on the cake.

I have to disagree with most of this. Vanilla Mila was easily top 3 but I don't see her in top 5 today. Highest damage is only in theory. Never had a Mila fully connect the mount on me online, and never seen an offline Mila that can guarantee it either. It'd be one thing if she still got advantage on break but yeah. Not sure what frame traps you mean (again it's been a while for me) but if it's TD related and can be stuffed with opponent's 2P it's not a real trap IMO. Also 5U has no oki.

 

[rximmortal]

See the thing is you're correct when it comes to one end of the argument. That's probably a fact. Then there's the other side of the argument where you're incorrect. That's also probably a fact. For example there's truth that the recent 1P/TDC~2P has no detrimental effect to Mila in the grand scheme of things. More so generic 1P as I explained above because at neutral she still has 2P and 2H+K. So I'm also in the camp that doesn't care as much and leaning more towards your point of view.

Personally when I see something new ( as this one ) I always try to understand the logic behind it. And if this logic apply to my idea how mila should be played, it goes in my arsenal ( Or I improve it by myself to the level it suits me best ).
But there are some things I don't get about this one. First thing is that while doing TDC-2P you lose so many frames that your opponent can make a delay tech "safely". Second thing is that you finish a low damage combo string without a pseudo option - "2T or 2K", which removes your game advantage. And the third thing is that if you know if he shall tech ( which you should know already ) you can simply go for 66T or charge max 7K.
To be honest I was never fan of 1P . Why to use a slow move that rarely gives me actually advantage.

 

[Jefffcore]

I saw a match video, and I wondered why you did tdc-2p after kp from 6t, cause I knew it didn't force tech. I'm wondering if I forgot to check something though.

Is it just something that the CPU can tech? I can't remember if I checked that or not.

I have to disagree with most of this. Vanilla Mila was easily top 3 but I don't see her in top 5 today. Highest damage is only in theory. Never had a Mila fully connect the mount on me online, and never seen an offline Mila that can guarantee it either. It'd be one thing if she still got advantage on break but yeah. Not sure what frame traps you mean (again it's been a while for me) but if it's TD related and can be stuffed with opponent's 2P it's not a real trap IMO. Also 5U has no oki.

If you aren't sure what frame traps he's talking about, it's been a while, and you think Doa5U has no oki, how can you say where she belongs? Lol

 

[Argentus]

Personally when I see something new ( as this one ) I always try to understand the logic behind it. And if this logic apply to my idea how mila should be played, it goes in my arsenal ( Or I improve it by myself to the level it suits me best ).
But there are some things I don't get about this one. First thing is that while doing TDC-2P you lose so many frames that your opponent can make a delay tech "safely". Second thing is that you finish a low damage combo string without a pseudo option - "2T or 2K", which removes your game advantage. And the third thing is that if you know if he shall tech ( which you should know already ) you can simply go for 66T or charge max 7K.
To be honest I was never fan of 1P . Why to use a slow move that rarely gives me actually advantage.

1p, I've found, is better for crushing highs, and generally just tripping up the opponent.

 

[Jefffcore]

Never mind, you can still wake up kick before that setup. I still don't get it.

If you can "slow tech", or wake up kick before the tdc-2p hits, then that particular setup is a gimmick.

6t, pk, p+k is a better option imo

 

[Something-Unique]

The TD~ setups I use for wakeup are not FT's. Its a setup designed for opponents that "TECH". I've said this before and even did so on the last page in post 38 in like the starting three sentences. I also explain the logic behind using it before but I'll attempt to do so again.

The first reason being that all options from the setup can't be beaten "IF YOU MANIPULATE THE FRAMES CORRECTLY". Meaning it does require some execution in order to line up all options from it in a way that nothing can be beat. The second reason being that the options can't be stepped. When done correctly even if your opponent doesn't tech it is confirmable allowing you to stop at the cancel point or continue into one of the options.

This means that if your opponent techs they are forced to deal with TD~P+K, 2P, and T in the same process. Something worth pointing out is that a significant amount of people including Mila users don't even know that TD~P+K is a true 1 hit CB on CH. Hence the great the use from it in that setup. Pressing a button leads to CH. Stepping leads to CH. On NH and HCH it just remains a level II threshold. Remember P+K can't be countered and maneuvers right through stun. Both being something that Mila users should be well aware of by now.

So the questions is why does a setup that requires an opponent to tech become relevant or good at all for that matter? Simple. Its because Mila eliminates wakeup kicks entirely by way of her main setup. Meaning against Mila they are not an option. It will "NEVER" work. Perfect okizeme. This is what I've attempted to explain on a ridiculous amount of occasions but almost no one from the DOA community understands. It is called an OS (option selects) which is possible for all characters in the game that can ground grapple but is the most potent for Mila and more or less useless for the rest outside of specific situations. This is because she is primarily a striking based character first with hybrid grappler attributes second and not the other way around. The OS means there is "NO GUESS WORK REQUIRED". It is an "ABSOLUTE" dependent on nothing else but your own execution in more cases than not.

Because of this I am still the only American Mila running it and out of all Mila play to this day. I have ever only seen it from some Japanese Mila play which isn't surprising considering most of the absurd tech in FG's come from them. This is the reason people almost always tech vs me in particular. Offline or Online. Low level or High level. Best player or Weakest player. Once they realize the potential overflow in damage that comes with it most choose to deal with the actual +6 frame advantage. The opponent is always forced into one or the other if your using her at the highest potential.

Another misconception is that Mila's damage is only high by way of mount. I'm looking at you in this case Synce as this is incorrect. In fact her non mount combo damage hits as hard or harder than the hardest hitting characters in the game from almost all levels of the stun threshold (levels I, II, and III). I tested and compared the damage for some examples of this a long time ago in the FB group and posted it for comparison. That data is lost in that post and I'm not gonna dig to find it. But for insight she shits harder than Akira for example who is one of the hardest hitting characters in the game. Mount combos just make it so she's unmatched in damage whatsoever and this is true for both PPP or T from the actual mount.

If there is a situation in which her non mount combo damage loses out its at best by way of a mere 3-5 points sometimes less but comes with the added benefit of +6/potential obnoxious overflow on damage. Last but not least part of the above problem is also the fact that to this day Mila players are still not even doing her best combos/damaging stuff (I actually posted a single combo example of this not that long ago in the FB group to help out Pyre) or don't understand when it makes sense to sacrifice a mere 2 points of damage for a combo that leads into her OS vs one that sends the opponent flying across the screen.

 

[Something-Unique]

To help give a visual idea of things I'm referring to in my last post I'll post some videos from over time. Between my last two posts if you can't understand what I'm saying at this point I can't help you. So read both carefully.

Example 1:

In this match at 2:46 to 2:56 there's an example of TD~P+K 1 hit threshold albeit with no wakeup setup. Also notice that throughout the entire match I never used generic mount combo until that point because I knew it would kill. You can also see different oki setup TD~ cancel combos in this same video at 1:44-1:53. Last but not least notice he never techs.

Just a disclaimer but me and RyuJin have been sparring for a long time in more than one game so there's a lot of reacting to tendencies under the hood here. For example doing raw TD~P+K with no setup is a silly risk but again there is long time metagame here so I know he has a tendency to throw out a jab during my incoming. Pointing that out because I wouldn't recommend doing raw TDC anything.

Example 2:

In this match against Tenryuga notice how he also always techs and the one time he doesn't he gets mounted. That was an actual free escape because the one time he didn't tech after doing so the entire match it threw me off so I never actually pressed a button after the mount. Once again like the RyuJin match above I never did the generic mount combo until the end of the match because I knew it would have closed out the match that time. The entire match he was at the mercy of frame advantage. We've also sparred a lot btw.

Example 3:

This one against NahouDrops is more of a throw back to something's she could do before nerfs like her 6T grab and 7K charge on block but frame traps and high damaging non mount combos/punishment are littered over this one.

Example 4:

In this match against PancitsTylor notice I only use mount combos accept at 0:32-0:38 where it wasnt necessary to kill. That's because Kasumi is one of the characters with that 3rd grade parry. I do use OS setups vs these kind of characters but less so. Its also the reason I chose to back up after wall splatting her at 1:26-1:28 but that part is more so because the 2K, 2T OS at the wall is +1 vs Kasumi which doesn't do much. Still these days I go for it because I like the control of the wakeup.

Example 5:

In this match with Gruff who I've also played a lot you can see even more examples of what I'm referring to. At 0:38-0:50 you can see what happens with the automatic OS at the end of this combo and what happened because he didn't tech. Going into the generic mount combo from her PL wouldn't have killed. Switching to a wall splat combo wouldn't have killed either. But the OS forced him into a situation that was more potent for Mila which is +6 if he teched or potential death if he didn't because mount after OS combos lead to even more damage than if you would have went into the generic mount combo itself. If this example/explanation isn't clear as can be I can't help explain any further to anyone who doesn't understand the point I've been trying to make.

At 0:57-1:08 notice I did the raw TD~P+K again. Once again its because I've played Gruff a lot so its running off player tendencies. At the end of this situation Mila wall splats Lisa into one of her weaker wall OS's which is again her 2K, 2T one and he doesn't tech allowing for the free grab and no option to wakeup kick. At 1:22-1:26 its the same thing but this time he techs nto what is +2 vs most of the cast.

Finally at 2:35-2:45 notice I did the raw TD~P+K once again but this time it hit on CH for 1 hit CB and I chose to go directly into generic mount combo for the kill because I needed nothing more.

In a nutshell understanding when to use what and not restricting yourself to being a Day 1 everything has to be generic mount combo Mila has its place. That's the reason tons of Mila's get scraped and at best remain a nusiance because they'll get stuck in that mindset even when mounts are continually escaped.

Examples 6 and 7:

These last two examples against codemastr show both scenarios between teching and no teching vs Mila and what happens when OS'ing correctly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6uk_dJRYi_w

In the first match you see me stick to one combo basically the entire match which has an automatic OS at the end for the sacrifice of some sizeable damage from other combos. I use this online exclusively for the most part because the more advanced ones are a bitch online. Anyway that setup is +6/mount without fail every time. Over the course of the match you see just that as he gets beat out when he attempts to attack or thrown when he blocks most of the time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_sxZ4dVbfA

In the second video you can see what happens when your mount timing is fucked a.k.a having a bad day but also notice he never techs allowing him no access to wakeup kicks. Yet even being a 9 frame character which equates to him having advantage on mount break it didn't mean much. Its because Mila's damage is still high and he has to deal with 6T and 2T on both offense and punishment as seen in the match. Christie and Alpha are the only two characters that pose significant issue upon mount break for Mila. Christie is Mila's only bad matchup imo for a ridiculous amount of reasons. On the other hand Mila has advantage against Alpha imo.

 

[rximmortal]

Really good combo examples. But if what you say is true and no one is using 2T OS with MIla , this only means that the Doa5 community is just on average level and there are no such thing as "Pros" in it.
Second thing about Mila is that most of the players ignore her Mount position because of the chance being interrupt. How to ignore a move which is EXTREMELY easy to apply and deal 80dmg. If you want to be good with Mila , better stop playing online. Go in training , set the dummy on fast escape and before you start doing it 100/100 don't return online. Yes there are lag but knowing the motion is more than enough to win.

Something Unique tell me what you think about the OS with 2K not 2T. For example combo like this. CB -> 9K , P6PP, 3PP , 2K ( OS) , 2K (2nd OS - if the first connect , still in advantage on tech) . Same combo CB-> 8K, 3PP , 3PP , 2K ....

 

[Argentus]

Really good combo examples. But if what you say is true and no one is using 2T OS with MIla , this only means that the Doa5 community is just on average level and there are no such thing as "Pros" in it.
Second thing about Mila is that most of the players ignore her Mount position because of the chance being interrupt. How to ignore a move which is EXTREMELY easy to apply and deal 80dmg. If you want to be good with Mila , better stop playing online. Go in training , set the dummy on fast escape and before you start doing it 100/100 don't return online. Yes there are lag but knowing the motion is more than enough to win.

Agreed. My timing's not perfect, but I still see it as a bigger advantage than just doing the guaranteed combos, if only because Mila doesn't require setups for it, she can literally follow mount off of ANYTHING.

 

[rximmortal]

Agreed. My timing's not perfect, but I still see it as a bigger advantage than just doing the guaranteed combos, if only because Mila doesn't require setups for it, she can literally follow mount off of ANYTHING.

I tried many methods to do it. For me if the text in the right corner is displayed, means you are making it TOOOO slow.
A method I use , but it requires training is this:
- I press the triangle button with my THUMB.
- I position my thumb on the farest left diagonal position en the pad. ( it is like 3 centimeters always from the button)
- When Mila goes in Mount position there are 3 hits
- I do all of them by observing the following things:
-1st hit - Look for Mila's knees the moment she start moving them from backward to forward is when you "SLIDE" your thumb form the starting position to triangle button.
-2nd and 3rd hits , The moment before she hits the opponent in the face you do the same,, slide thumb on the triangle button.
Executing this way I managed to make all 3 hits without even text displayed on the screen.
I am sure there are other ways and motions to do it but this is how I do it.

Other method I know , but I didn't test is - to learn by mind a motion and start pressing the other buttons in a certain way. For example if you have to handle 60 frames you start pressing buttons in circle like that - Circle - Cross - Square - "Triangle" with a certain speed which you must learn.
But maybe this method is harder than the upper one.

Please let me know on your ways.

 

[Argentus]

I tried many methods to do it. For me if the text in the right corner is displayed, means you are making it TOOOO slow.
A method I use , but it requires training is this:
- I press the triangle button with my THUMB.
- I position my thumb on the farest left diagonal position en the pad. ( it is like 3 centimeters always from the button)
- When Mila goes in Mount position there are 3 hits
- I do all of them by observing the following things:
-1st hit - Look for Mila's knees the moment she start moving them from backward to forward is when you "SLIDE" your thumb form the starting position to triangle button.
-2nd and 3rd hits , The moment before she hits the opponent in the face you do the same,, slide thumb on the triangle button.
Executing this way I managed to make all 3 hits without even text displayed on the screen.
I am sure there are other ways and motions to do it but this is how I do it.

Other method I know , but I didn't test is - to learn by mind a motion and start pressing the other buttons in a certain way. For example if you have to handle 60 frames you start pressing buttons in circle like that - Circle - Cross - Square - "Triangle" with a certain speed which you must learn.
But maybe this method is harder than the upper one.

Please let me know on your ways.

I....can't tell if you are trying to be a wiseass or trying to tell me how to get the timing just right. Or both.

I just make sure I start pressing punch/kick right before the text prompt comes up, so that by the time its registered, the prompt is barely on screen for a milisecond.

Although its that "off the wall" mount that really has screwy timing.




Also, has anyone else had the lag issue where it just IGNORES the three hits? Like, I didn't miss the timing and they didn't break free, but I mount them, and then there's a 1.5 second pause and Mila just gets back up even though I'm pressing punch (frantically and repeatedly by that point)?

 

[Something-Unique]

It doesn't mean everyone is at average level and there are no pro's in it. Why would you think that? All it means is Mila users aren't playing her efficient enough. In response to your second statement that's true. Its just being lazy since combo throws are guaranteed if the one using them just frames them or to a lesser extent presses the button faster than the other but you should always have a Plan B and Plan C just in case something goes wrong. Which it will sometimes.

Perfect example was at SJ8 the first of my only two tournaments for DOA5U. I practiced JF timing for the event and then the very first TV I played on at the event had lag issues which threw off my timing for the rest of the event. But again that's not the point I was making with her OS because as a Mila user you would still be required to practice mount since you would be mounting them if they didn't tech.

The point was it is more efficient as you impose frame traps a.k.a MOMENTUM or even more damage on your opponent all the while maximizing your combo damage beforehand. Momentum is often the most important in FG's. In DOA's case think DOA5 Helena or DOA5U. Same concept. You want to Exacerbate the situation. Meaning to make the problem or situation worse for your opponent not neutralize it.

Also I can't test anything until LR since I don't have the game anymore. Haven't since post TFC as I got rid of my PS3 a while after I had my PS4 because I didn't need it anymore but the setup your referring to isn't an OS and it isn't as good. Remember the 2T one forces a +6 anything you want situation on your opponent/mount. While at the same time maximizing combo damage. Your combos into 2T don't maximize combo damage, don't give as great frame advantage, and don't force a mount situation for even more damage all in one process. Plus it doesn't FT. Not to mention a bunch of other things.

Edit:

Here's another example of how things flow together. Both OS and TD~'s and an alternate wall trap. Matches end much faster when you have momentum going and you don't give your opponent any neutrality.

 

[rximmortal]

Remember the 2T one forces a +6 anything you want situation on your opponent/mount. While at the same time maximizing combo damage. Your combos into 2T don't maximize combo damage, don't give as great frame advantage, and don't force a mount situation for even more damage all in one process. Plus it doesn't FT. Not to mention a bunch of other things.

I can admit that 2T OS is better than 2K, but 2K is just different situation where mostlikely your oponenent never been in.

And about Pro-gaming. The progaming is decided by the numbers of players in the community. More the players -> higher the skill.
Unfortunately because of that the general skill level is growing really slow. Doa5 will stay on this level forever unfortunately ,but undoboubtedly the game is really good. And hope TN's next fighting game ( DOA6 or else) to be really astonishing in competitive level of play not only in graphic.

 

[Something-Unique]

Yeah that's true. The 2K setup you use is like an equivalent to the TD~cancels I use. Different strokes for different folks since ultimately neither of them FT. Still I hope you guys learn to OS.

It should be like this...

OS = Main strat against wakeup which will never allow your opponent to use wakeup kicks and then...

Whatever alternative you like to use against wakeup so your Plan A is an absolute that makes people fall into your Plan B, etc. Anyway this is my last post for a while. Hope I could help. Will be playing the game again when LR comes out. Its been over 3 months now. Until then.

 

[Argentus]

I got rid of my PS3 a while after I had my PS4 because I didn't need it anymore

 

[Something-Unique]

I'll use one more example because I stumbled upon this video from Ain that appears be recent and it's perfect for the explanation I was attempting to make if you still don't understand it.

I mentioned earlier that all characters that have a ground grab like Mila can do the same OS. I also said the difference is Mila's is good and the others kind of useless outside of "specific situations" because Mila is a striker first and a hybrid grappler second and not the other way around in comparison to the rest.

In this video you see the only real viable use for the other characters with ground grapple OS's which is the wall. In the open like Mila it's not as useful because the other characters have to sacrifice large amounts of damage in a combo to do so since they're not strikers a.k.a can't juggle like a striker to in order to rack up as much damage before cutting a combo short. The juggle potential beforehand is simply not there. This is what I meant by that statement.

So with that said I want to point out a couple of things about the automatic OS's used in this clip. One being that all of them are "automatic" and negate wakeup kicks. Two being that all may or may not be equal depending on the direction the opponent techs. Three being that the frame advantage can be different per character. Mila for example can be +1 vs Kasumi but +2 vs Pai despite being both 9 frame characters. In general its +2 vs most of the cast and +9 vs Alpha because of the way she gets up. Last but not least all of them can do +6 just like Bayman in this video but it has to be done manually. This is the reason I used "automatic" and "manual" terminology time and time again. Manual OS's are more difficult but sometimes come with better reward.

In a nutshell all of these characters in this video have some of if not the best wall pressure because of it. Mila the most because she does the most damage both up to the wall splat and after the splat when adding the extra 30 points of damage from the auto OS trap (no tech) or +2/+6 with tech and because she has the fastest strikes she can do the most with the actual frame advantage all the while negating wakeup kicks. Not to mention her wall pressure from 6T as is.

 

[Argentus]

I'll use one more example because I stumbled upon this video from Ain that appears be recent and it's perfect for the explanation I was attempting to make if you still don't understand it.

I mentioned earlier that all characters that have a ground grab like Mila can do the same OS. I also said the difference is Mila's is good and the others kind of useless outside of "specific situations" because Mila is a striker first and a hybrid grappler second and not the other way around in comparison to the rest.

In this video you see the only real viable use for the other characters with ground grapple OS's which is the wall. In the open like Mila it's not as useful because the other characters have to sacrifice large amounts of damage in a combo to do so since they're not strikers a.k.a can't juggle like a striker to in order to rack up as much damage before cutting a combo short. The juggle potential beforehand is simply not there. This is what I meant by that statement.

So with that said I want to point out a couple of things about the automatic OS's used in this clip. One being that all of them are "automatic" and negate wakeup kicks. Two being that all may or may not be equal depending on the direction the opponent techs. Three being that the frame advantage can be different per character.

Past this point I'm lost, because I have a hard time translating frame data lol.