Balance The Karate Master

[Tenryuga]

Alright then. I'm not doing the actual tweet but I'll list the changes and number them. Everyone that agrees or disagrees put "Yes" or "No" next to the number in your response. (IE 1 - No. 2 - Yes.) What we all agree on should be what's in the final list and sent. Keep in mind this colossal list is a combination of everyone's ideas so don't be expected to say yes to everything.

1 - 6P+K - i14 .
2 - 4K - i13
3 - P+K - Given CB status.
4 - PP (Charge) P - 27 frame charge, +5 GB on block.
5 - 8P - SDS on CH, bound at threshold.
6 - 1KK - safe GB (-4) on block. Added pushback.
7 - *New Move* - 1K2K (Low > tracking low string.)
8 - 46K - +3 GB on block.
9 - 236K - +5 on block.
10 - 7K - Unholdable.
11 - 2H+K and string variants - CH properties applied to NH. (+16 trip stun on NH)
12 - 4PP - First punch damage increased to 23 and second punch made a mid.
13 - 9P - Added relaunch properties.
14 - 9PK - Neutral GB on block.
15 - 3P - True mid status, uncrushable.
16 - 66PK - Added tracking, Bound status on threshold.
17 - 3H+K - +4 GB on Block.
18 - BT 4P - i18
19 - BT 1P - +1 on NH.
20 - KK - Added sidestep tracking.
21A - 3K - +17 stun on NH, +24 stun on CH
21B - 3K - +24 stun on NH & CH.
22 - 3KK - Added 2-in-1 status.
23 - *New Move* - 3K2K: 3K into 2H+K string.
24 - 7P - +16 GB on block.
25 - *New Move* - 214H+K - Standalone variant of BT 7K: Mid K, i23, +2 GB on block, unholdable, tech jumping. Same properties as BT 7K on hit.
26 - *New Move* - Running H+K - Running variant of 214H+K: i21 and all other properties of 214H+K.
27 - Hitomi's 8P Series.
28A - 4P2KK
28B - 4P2K6PP
28C - 4P2K6PK
28D - 4P2K6P2K
29 - 66F+P - OH damage increased by 10 points across the board.
30 - *New Move* - 1P: i15 tracking low punch. -1 on NH, Same properties as BT 1P on CH and block.
31 - 6P - +1 on block.
32 - *New Move* - 6K2K: 6K into 1K string, low is +5 on NH and same properties as 1K on CH and block.

Finally.

33A - 6KK - i12 6K.

33B - 6KK - i12 6K, given 2-in-1 status.

33C - 6KK - i12 6K, safe/semi-safe on block.

33D - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given SDS on NH, bound on CH.

33E - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given bound on NH and CH.

33F - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, bound only on CH.


Take your time and think about it, it's a long list. Someone can comprise the final list once everyone's gotten their verdict in.

1 -8. Yes. 8P should be +15-16 Fastest SE.
8. I'll take +5 on this since I'm skeptical about it on 236K.
9. +2-3 at most because the move has great utility.
12. 4P 19 damage on NH so it will be 23 on CH. 23 on NH is too high. Other than that Yes.
13 - 18. Yes.
19. Dunno if necessary with buff to BT 4P and 3H+K. Indifferent toward.
20. Yes.
21A&B. If these numbers are the values prior to SE yes.
22. Yes.
23. Yes.
24. Indifferent. Ill take it or leave it.
25. Yes.
26. Yes.
28A-D. Yes.
29-32 Yes.

33. I will take whatever here but my personal preference is 13i, 2 in 1, Safe.

 

[Zeo]

9. +2-3 at most because the move has great utility.
12. 4P 19 damage on NH so it will be 23 on CH. 23 on NH is too high. Other than that Yes.
21A&B. If these numbers are the values prior to SE yes.
33. I will take whatever here but my personal preference is 13i, 2 in 1, Safe.

9 - Move has good wakeup utility and CH properties but is i33, doesn't track and is holdable. I think the advantage is fair given what some other characters get on 30+ frames but we'll see what other people have to say on this.

12 - I forgot to put on CH.

21 - They are.

33 - I goofed. That was supposed to be 32G, I forgot what it was supposed to be when I was typing it so I erased it. Fixed.

 

[JayceeChris]

I'm not sure to understand the concept of 2in1 (3K and 6K). Can anyone give me a quick explanation about it please ?

 

[Zeo]

I'm not sure to understand the concept of 2in1 (3K and 6K). Can anyone give me a quick explanation about it please ?

A 2-in-1 refers to a move that can not be held or blocked if the initial strike hits you. Essentially guaranteeing the followup. In this case, if 3K or 6K hits the opponent, the followup is guaranteed and can not be escaped, held or blocked in any fashion.

Other examples are things like Helena's windmill handslaps which are considered a 3-in-1 and Jann Lee's 4PPP which is a 5-in-1 (the only one in the game at that.).

 

[JayceeChris]

A 2-in-1 refers to a move that can not be held or blocked if the initial strike hits you. Essentially guaranteeing the followup. In this case, if 3K or 6K hits the opponent, the followup is guaranteed and can not be escaped, held or blocked in any fashion.

Ok I see, thank you.

Here's mine, it wasn't hard to decide since those suggestions are good ideas and legit.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. Yes
8. Yes
9. No, I think +5 is a bit too much.
10. No
11. Yes
12. Yes
13. Yes
14. Yes
15. Yes
16. Yes
17. No, I'll use 46K (+3) over it for frame advantage
18. No
19. No
20. Yes
21A. Yes
22. Yes
23. No
24. No, I don't really feel comfortable with that move.
25. Yes
26. Yes
27. Yes
27A-D. Yes
28. Yes
29. Yes
30. Yes
31. Yes
32. Yes
32B and C. Yes

 

[Zeo]

I'll throw mine in while I'm still here.

1 - 8. Yes
9. I can settle on +3 since most seem to be against the +5
10. No. With all the improvements here I suppose this would be a bit too much.
11 - 17. Yes
18. No.
19 - 20. Yes
21A . Yes
22. Yes
23. No
24 - 26. Yes
27 A - D. Yes
28. Yes
29. Indifferent
30 - 31. Yes.

This last one is hard for me. 32C or 32E would be great. I'll go with 32E I guess but I'm completely 50-50 on this, both would be amazing changes.

 

[Nightpup]

Alright then. I'm not doing the actual tweet but I'll list the changes and number them. Everyone that agrees or disagrees put "Yes" or "No" next to the number in your response. (IE 1 - No. 2 - Yes.) What we all agree on should be what's in the final list and sent. Keep in mind this colossal list is a combination of everyone's ideas so don't be expected to say yes to everything.

1 - 6P+K - i14 No.
2 - 4K - i13 No.
3 - P+K - Given CB status. No.
4 - PP (Charge) P - 27 frame charge, +5 GB on block. No. +2 or 3 might be better.
5 - 8P - SDS on CH, bound at threshold. Yes.
6 - 1KK - safe GB (-4) on block. Added pushback. Yes.
7 - *New Move* - 1K2K (Low > tracking low string.) Yes.
8 - 46K - +3 GB on block. Yes.
9 - 236K - +5 on block. Yes.
10 - 7K - Unholdable. Yes.
11 - 2H+K and string variants - CH properties applied to NH. (+16 trip stun on NH) No.
12 - 4PP - First punch damage increased to 23 on CH and second punch made a mid. No.
13 - 9P - Added relaunch properties. Yes.
14 - 9PK - Neutral GB on block. Yes.
15 - 3P - True mid status, uncrushable. Not sure how I feel about this one.
16 - 66PK - Added tracking, Bound status on threshold. Yes.
17 - 3H+K - +4 GB on Block. I forget which move that is.
18 - BT 4P - i18 Don't care; don't use.
19 - BT 1P - +1 on NH. Yes.
20 - KK - Added sidestep tracking. Yes.
21A - 3K - +17 stun on NH, +24 stun on CH No.
21B - 3K - +24 stun on NH & CH. No.
22 - 3KK - Added 2-in-1 status. No.
23 - *New Move* - 3K2K: 3K into 2H+K string. No.
24 - 7P - +16 GB on block. Yes.
25 - *New Move* - 214H+K - Standalone variant of BT 7K: Mid K, i23, +2 GB on block, unholdable, tech jumping. Same properties as BT 7K on hit. I didn't know BT 7K existed.
26 - *New Move* - Running H+K - Running variant of 214H+K: i21 and all other properties of 214H+K. Yes.
27 - Hitomi's 8P Series. Yes.
27A - 4P2KK
27B - 4P2K6PP
27C - 4P2K6PK
27D - 4P2K6P2K
28 - 66F+P - OH damage increased by 10 points across the board. No.
29 - *New Move* - 1P: i15 tracking low punch. -1 on NH, Same properties as BT 1P on CH and block. Yes.
30 - 6P - +1 on block. Yes.
31 - *New Move* - 6K2K: 6K into 1K string, low is +5 on NH and same properties as 1K on CH and block. Yes.

Finally.

32A - 6KK - i12 6K. No.

32B - 6KK - i12 6K, given 2-in-1 status. No.

32C - 6KK - i12 6K, safe/semi-safe on block. No.

32D - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given SDS on NH, bound on CH. No.

32E - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given bound on NH and CH. No.

32F - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, bound only on CH. No.

32G - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, safe/semi-safe on block. No.


Take your time and think about it, it's a long list. Someone can comprise the final list once everyone's gotten their verdict in.

Put my answers at the end of each.

 

[Number 13]

I'll drop off my poll results. Same as poster above answers at the end of each.

1 - 6P+K - i14 (Yes)
2 - 4K - i13 (Yes)
3 - P+K - Given CB status. (Yes)
4 - PP (Charge) P - 27 frame charge, +5 GB on block. (No)
5 - 8P - SDS on CH, bound at threshold. (Yes)
6 - 1KK - safe GB (-4) on block. Added pushback. (Yes)
7 - *New Move* - 1K2K (Low > tracking low string.) (Yes)
8 - 46K - +3 GB on block. (Yes)
9 - 236K - +5 on block. (No)
10 - 7K - Unholdable. (No)
11 - 2H+K and string variants - CH properties applied to NH. (+16 trip stun on NH) (Yes)
12 - 4PP - First punch damage increased to 23 on CH and second punch made a mid. (Yes)
13 - 9P - Added relaunch properties. (Yes)
14 - 9PK - Neutral GB on block. (Yes)
15 - 3P - True mid status, uncrushable. (Yes)
16 - 66PK - Added tracking, Bound status on threshold. (Yes)
17 - 3H+K - +4 GB on Block. (No)
18 - BT 4P - i18 (No)
19 - BT 1P - +1 on NH. (No)
20 - KK - Added sidestep tracking. (Yes)
21A - 3K - +17 stun on NH, +24 stun on CH (yes)
21B - 3K - +24 stun on NH & CH. (Yes)
22 - 3KK - Added 2-in-1 status. (Yes)
23 - *New Move* - 3K2K: 3K into 2H+K string. (No)
24 - 7P - +16 GB on block. (No)
25 - *New Move* - 214H+K - Standalone variant of BT 7K: Mid K, i23, +2 GB on block, unholdable, tech jumping. Same properties as BT 7K on hit. (Yes)
26 - *New Move* - Running H+K - Running variant of 214H+K: i21 and all other properties of 214H+K. (Yes)
27 - Hitomi's 8P Series.
27A - 4P2KK (No)
27B - 4P2K6PP(No
27C - 4P2K6PK(No)
27D - 4P2K6P2K(No)
28 - 66F+P - OH damage increased by 10 points across the board. (Yes)
29 - *New Move* - 1P: i15 tracking low punch. -1 on NH, Same properties as BT 1P on CH and block. (Yes)
30 - 6P - +1 on block. (Yes)
31 - *New Move* - 6K2K: 6K into 1K string, low is +5 on NH and same properties as 1K on CH and block. (Yes)

Finally.

32A - 6KK - i12 6K. (No)

32B - 6KK - i12 6K, given 2-in-1 status. (No)

32C - 6KK - i12 6K, safe/semi-safe on block. (No)

32D - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given SDS on NH, bound on CH. (No)

32E - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given bound on NH and CH. (Yes)

32F - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, bound only on CH. (No)

32G - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, safe/semi-safe on block. (No)

 

[Step]

1 - 6P+K - i14 Yes
2 - 4K - i13 Yes
3 - P+K - Given CB status. NO
4 - PP (Charge) P - 27 frame charge, +5 GB on block. Yes
5 - 8P - SDS on CH, bound at threshold. Yes
6 - 1KK - safe GB (-4) on block. Added pushback. Yes
7 - *New Move* - 1K2K (Low > tracking low string.) YES
8 - 46K - +3 GB on block. YES
9 - 236K - +5 on block. YES
10 - 7K - Unholdable. YES
11 - 2H+K and string variants - CH properties applied to NH. (+16 trip stun on NH) YES
12 - 4PP - First punch damage increased to 23 on CH and second punch made a mid. NO
13 - 9P - Added relaunch properties. YES
14 - 9PK - Neutral GB on block. YES
15 - 3P - True mid status, uncrushable. HELL YES!!!
16 - 66PK - Added tracking, Bound status on threshold. YES
17 - 3H+K - +4 GB on Block. YES
18 - BT 4P - i18 NO
19 - BT 1P - +1 on NH. NO
20 - KK - Added sidestep tracking. YES
21A - 3K - +17 stun on NH, +24 stun on CH YES
21B - 3K - +24 stun on NH & CH. YES
22 - 3KK - Added 2-in-1 status. HELL YES!!!
23 - *New Move* - 3K2K: 3K into 2H+K string. YES
24 - 7P - +16 GB on block. YES
25 - *New Move* - 214H+K - Standalone variant of BT 7K: Mid K, i23, +2 GB on block, unholdable, tech jumping. Same properties as BT 7K on hit. YES
26 - *New Move* - Running H+K - Running variant of 214H+K: i21 and all other properties of 214H+K. YES
27 - Hitomi's 8P Series. YES
27A - 4P2KK YES
27B - 4P2K6PP YES
27C - 4P2K6PK YES
27D - 4P2K6P2K YES
28 - 66F+P - OH damage increased by 10 points across the board. YES
29 - *New Move* - 1P: i15 tracking low punch. -1 on NH, Same properties as BT 1P on CH and block. NO
30 - 6P - +1 on block. NO
31 - *New Move* - 6K2K: 6K into 1K string, low is +5 on NH and same properties as 1K on CH and block. YES

Finally.

32A - 6KK - i12 6K. YES

32B - 6KK - i12 6K, given 2-in-1 status. YES

32C - 6KK - i12 6K, safe/semi-safe on block. YES

32D - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given SDS on NH, bound on CH. YES

32E - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given bound on NH and CH. YES

32F - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, bound only on CH. YES

32G - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, safe/semi-safe on block. YES


Take your time and think about it, it's a long list. Someone can comprise the final list once everyone's gotten their verdict in.[/quote]

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

I think P+K as CB is a good idea, 6P+K is a horrible move to use as his CB it's his best whiff punisher and now it's almost useless outside of max threshold for CB.

P+K as CB will allow us to use 6P+K as it was originally intended.
Also what's so hard about using P+K?

 

[LightSonic]

1 - 2 Yes! Ein needs these!
3 - Yes. Right now I think P+K is useless tbh. Giving it CB status instead of 6P+K would be amazing.
4 - Yes
5 - Yes
6 - Yes
7 - Yes
8 - Yes
9 - No
10 - Yes
11 - Yes
12 - Yes
13 - Yes
14 - Yes
15 - Yes. 3P should have always been a true mid. This never should have been crushable.
16 - Yes. Tracking plus bound status on threshold from 66PK would be a really nice addition.
17 - No
18 - No
19 - Yes
20 - Yes
21A - Yes
22 - Yes. 3KK should have been always been a natural combo.
23 - No
24 - Yes
25 - Yes
26 - Yes
27A-D - Yes
28 - Yes. I wish they would change the input back to 6T though and make 6T 4T again.
29 - Yes
30 - Yes
31 - Yes
32 - E Yes

 

[Zeo]

1 - 6P+K - i14 Yes
2 - 4K - i13 Yes
3 - P+K - Given CB status. NO

21A - 3K - +17 stun on NH, +24 stun on CH YES
21B - 3K - +24 stun on NH & CH. YES

32A - 6KK - i12 6K. YES

32B - 6KK - i12 6K, given 2-in-1 status. YES

32C - 6KK - i12 6K, safe/semi-safe on block. YES

32D - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given SDS on NH, bound on CH. YES

32E - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given bound on NH and CH. YES

32F - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, bound only on CH. YES

32G - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, safe/semi-safe on block. YES

Step, the idea is to make P+K his new CB (Critical Burst) because 6P+K is 20 frames and currently his CB. We want P+K to be his CB because it's already 20 frames and it allows us to regain the 14 frame P+K that we lost. Not to make his CB 14 frames. I assume you realize that so why would you say no to P+K being his CB? do you have another idea of what his CB should be?

Also, the idea of the A-B-C-D choices or 21 and 32 are options for what properties you want the move to have. You checked yes on all of them. Does this mean you didn't understand or that you're just in favor of any of these options and don't have a preference?

25 - *New Move* - 214H+K - Standalone variant of BT 7K: Mid K, i23, +2 GB on block, unholdable, tech jumping. Same properties as BT 7K on hit. (No)
26 - *New Move* - Running H+K - Running variant of 214H+K: i21 and all other properties of 214H+K. (Yes)
29 - *New Move* - 1P: i15 tracking low punch. -1 on NH, Same properties as BT 1P on CH and block

Found it interesting you were against BT 7K being a standalone move but were in favor of it's running variant. Reasoning? Your opinion is your own, I'm just curious is all.

Also, you didn't give an answer for 29.

 

[SilverForte]

Alright then. I'm not doing the actual tweet but I'll list the changes and number them. Everyone that agrees or disagrees put "Yes" or "No" next to the number in your response. (IE 1 - No. 2 - Yes.) What we all agree on should be what's in the final list and sent. Keep in mind this colossal list is a combination of everyone's ideas so don't be expected to say yes to everything.

1 - 6P+K - i14 "yes"
2 - 4K - i13 "yes"
3 - P+K - Given CB status. "yes"
4 - PP (Charge) P - 27 frame charge, +5 GB on block. " I wouldn't say no but not really needed"
5 - 8P - SDS on CH, bound at threshold. "depends on the advantage at highest se, if guaranteed 33k then yes"
6 - 1KK - safe GB (-4) on block. Added pushback. "yes"
7 - *New Move* - 1K2K (Low > tracking low string.) "yes"
8 - 46K - +3 GB on block. "yes"
9 - 236K - +5 on block. " I don't think +5 is needed, I wouldn't say no but +3 would be fine"
10 - 7K - Unholdable. "Yes, hasn't it always been unholdable before?"
11 - 2H+K and string variants - CH properties applied to NH. (+16 trip stun on NH) "yes"
12 - 4PP - First punch damage increased to 23 on CH and second punch made a mid. "Wouldn't say no but not really needed"
13 - 9P - Added relaunch properties. "yes"
14 - 9PK - Neutral GB on block. "yes"
15 - 3P - True mid status, uncrushable. "yes"
16 - 66PK - Added tracking, Bound status on threshold. "yes, but the bound isn't really needed, wouldn't say no to it though"
17 - 3H+K - +4 GB on Block. "yes"
18 - BT 4P - i18 " Honestly I would make it faster, even at +4 it's still gonna be beat out by pretty much anything, either make it faster or give it a high reward if you hit with it"
19 - BT 1P - +1 on NH. "+0 would be fine, wouldn't say no to +1 though"
20 - KK - Added sidestep tracking. "yes"
21A - 3K - +17 stun on NH, +24 stun on CH "yes"
21B - 3K - +24 stun on NH & CH. "no"
22 - 3KK - Added 2-in-1 status. "yes"
23 - *New Move* - 3K2K: 3K into 2H+K string. " Would be nice but isn't essential"
24 - 7P - +16 GB on block. " Given how slow this move is, I don't think it'd ever see any use unless it was a lot faster, perhaps like akiras gb"
25 - *New Move* - 214H+K - Standalone variant of BT 7K: Mid K, i23, +2 GB on block, unholdable, tech jumping. Same properties as BT 7K on hit. "yes"
26 - *New Move* - Running H+K - Running variant of 214H+K: i21 and all other properties of 214H+K. "yes"
27 - Hitomi's 8P Series. " nah"
27A - 4P2KK
27B - 4P2K6PP
27C - 4P2K6PK
27D - 4P2K6P2K
28 - 66F+P - OH damage increased by 10 points across the board. " Not really needed, he is lucky to have OH's to begin with"
29 - *New Move* - 1P: i15 tracking low punch. -1 on NH, Same properties as BT 1P on CH and block. " why not"
30 - 6P - +1 on block. "yes"
31 - *New Move* - 6K2K: 6K into 1K string, low is +5 on NH and same properties as 1K on CH and block. "yes"

Finally.

32A - 6KK - i12 6K. "no"

32B - 6KK - i12 6K, given 2-in-1 status.

32C - 6KK - i12 6K, safe/semi-safe on block.

32D - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given SDS on NH, bound on CH. "yes"

32E - 6KK - i13 6K, Followup given bound on NH and CH. "no"

32F - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, bound only on CH. "no"

32G - 6KK - i13 6K, given 2-in-1 status, safe/semi-safe on block. "yes"


Take your time and think about it, it's a long list. Someone can comprise the final list once everyone's gotten their verdict in.

 

[Number 13]

Found it interesting you were against BT 7K being a standalone move but were in favor of it's running variant. Reasoning? Your opinion is your own, I'm just curious is all.

Also, you didn't give an answer for 29.

Whoops messed up in that area was meant for another "Yes". Explains why one was left blank too -_- . Good catch fixed.

 

[XZero264]

Agree with all but would like to add:

46P, 236P, 7P, 4P+K (all charges) - given true mid status. Getting ducked while using a mid just shouldn't happen at all, let alone what are probably his best punches (or the best punches in the game, or so I think). #Toriyah!

If the 32s are a "pick one" situation then I think 32F would be best. I think Ein benefits more from Bounds than SDS and the i13 balances out the the rest of the properties.

 

[Jaguar360]

Agree with all but would like to add:

46P, 236P, 7P, 4P+K (all charges) - given true mid status. Getting ducked while using a mid just shouldn't happen at all, let alone what are probably his best punches (or the best punches in the game, or so I think). #Toriyah!

If the 32s are a "pick one" situation then I think 32F would be best. I think Ein benefits more from Bounds than SDS and the i13 balances out the the rest of the properties.

I agree, but remember that 46P and 7P are highs.

 

[Step]

Step, the idea is to make P+K his new CB (Critical Burst) because 6P+K is 20 frames and currently his CB. We want P+K to be his CB because it's already 20 frames and it allows us to regain the 14 frame P+K that we lost. Not to make his CB 14 frames. I assume you realize that so why would you say no to P+K being his CB? do you have another idea of what his CB should be?

Also, the idea of the A-B-C-D choices or 21 and 32 are options for what properties you want the move to have. You checked yes on all of them. Does this mean you didn't understand or that you're just in favor of any of these options and don't have a preference?

im gonna be 100% honest the thought that of Ein getting buffed just made so happy, I wasn't really reading them I was just like " yes" to everything MAKE HIM A GOD!!! lol, but the reason I said no to p+k as a CB was because I thought you wanted 2 mid-p CB's and that wouldn't make any type of sense. Now for the 6kk im gonna go with F.

 

[Tenryuga]

To those of you skeptical about standalone 1P the point is to give Ein a tracking high crush that he can use to ward off speed demons a bit. The most important thing about it is that it allows him to retaliate against christie in close quarters since he has no fast tracking mid and is getting eaten up by her speed and evasion due to his linearity. The stun on this will only allow stun game entry on people that don't SE.

As for 4P this is being buffed to make it so his 2P pressure is less free to sidestep. Allow me to give the outcomes of 2P pressure against someone with a 12i mid in the most basic form:

1. 2P > P

Win: Opponent uses 10i jab or 12i mid.

Lose: Opponent uses 2P or Sidesteps. If KK is given tracking the tracking is coming on the bounding kick because it's hard for me to imagine K tracking.

2. 2P > 3P

Win: Opponent uses a mid or low.

Lose: Opponent uses a high or sidesteps.

3. 2P > 2P

Win: Opponent uses a high or has a 13i or slower low.

Lose: Opponent uses their mid or sidesteps.

So we see here sidestep is killing all options. Now let's take a look at 4P; Our step killer.

4. 2P > 4P

Win: Opponent sidesteps.

Lose: Opponent chooses to strike.

So we see here that if we try to check sidestep it doesn't matter what the opponent does we will lose unless the opponent decides to block or sidestep. This is the only move where the odds are against us and not 50 / 50 when holds are excluded. By buffing the damage of 4P to 19 on NH, 23 on CH the outcome changes to a 50 / 50 as we will win when the opponent does their mid or sidesteps and lose when they do their high or low.

This is against characters with 12i mids. If you have an 11i mid you don't have to respect Eins 2P as much because your mid beats 3 attack options. I am fine with this because these characters are usually ass at spacing and range combat anyway so I won't be abusing 2P in these MU's. However if 4P is left as is he will continue to be dominated by Hayate.

The mid in 4P is there so people can't panic low hold out of it. Even though 4PPP beats low holds it is unsafe unlike Hitomi's so it cannot be committed to or delayed since its not that easy to hitconfirm a 4PP stun into 4PPP. At least online; I haven't had enough offline matches to know.

Given how Ein's mixup is terrible and will be mediocre even with the buffs we give him any hit he gets should count. 3P gives us a satisfying lift stun and so 4P should serve as a great payoff for our read on SS by giving us in string launchers / mixups with light stuns IMO.

 

[LightSonic]

The mid in 4P is there so people can't panic low hold out of it. Even though 4PPP beats low holds it is unsafe unlike Hitomi's so it cannot be committed to or delayed since its not that easy to hitconfirm a 4PP stun into 4PPP. At least online; I haven't had enough offline matches to know.

Hmm yes that is true. I didn't think about that. I have seen some people who love to panic low hold after getting hit by 4P. Making the second hit a mid would be a good idea.

 

[TakedaZX]

So general consensus seems to be within this list:

http://takedazxdoa.blogspot.com/2013_11_01_archive.html