DOA5U What Should be Done with the Ground Game?

[UncleKitchener]

I've always been for force techs, but the main problem with them as far as this iteration of DOA is concerned is when a character has the ability to go from juggle, force tech, throw/low attack reset into guaranteed stun or launch, repeat.

In order words I think the blender of DOA is currently too strong for a game where a good portion of the cast has very weak spacing capability and there is no throw break system in place to promote damage control. There have been plenty of games in the past where if a person gets in on you, then you are likely screwed, but those games usually had some kind of logical damage control option or at least a really good movement system to counter-balance such danger.

DOA is only kind of half-way there.

Here would be my wishlist of sorts for the next game:

Add more negative frames to allow unsafe moves to be strike punishable.
Slows down throws in general.
Add throw breaks for normal command throws, reduce the throw break window on counter throw and make em unbreakable on hi-counter. Offensive Holds/catch throws will remain unbreakable.
Add recovery counter during recovery of moves, that way TN won't have to change the hit property of moves on normal hit.

 

[Brute]

If regular command throws become breakable I see no reason that OHs shouldn't be breakable as well.

Beefing up the initial and recovery frames on throws is something I'm not opposed to at all.

 

[UncleKitchener]

OHs being breakable defeats their purpose. They're slow, low on damage output and prone to throws and really punishable due to their recovery.

VF catch throws aren't breakable for a reason and that seems to balance out the triangle system in that game.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I wouldn't really call something like LeiFang's i16 66T "slow". Most grappler 3T OH's tend to be pretty damn fast too. Though, I wouldn't mind throw breaks on command throws but only from neutral frames or advantage. Throws are still supposed to be the primary form of punishment for unsafe attacks.

Making more things strike punishable sounds good on paper, but most people's launchers on NH generally don't lead to combos that do any more damage than their stronger throws. Especially if you have a 70-80+ dmg throw.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

just as long as i can still get massive damage by punishing holds im fine

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

just as long as i can still get massive damage by punishing holds im fine

X_____________X

 

[Brute]

OHs being breakable defeats their purpose. They're slow, low on damage output and prone to throws and really punishable due to their recovery.

VF catch throws aren't breakable for a reason and that seems to balance out the triangle system in that game.

They also frequently have a long reach and evasive properties. So sure, there are some really stupid OHs that are really slow, have piss-poor range and do pitiful damage (Ryu's WR4T). But others, such as Marie Rose's 3P+K T, Bayman's 2P+KT, and various 8T attacks. And then there's Dragon Gunner, Marie's BT T, Leifang's sabaki T, etc.

This game isn't VF. The triangle system doesn't even function in that game as it does in DOA without the same stun and hold system featured in DOA.

 

[TheRealCoxinator]

Do you realize how silly this sounds? Why shouldn't I be able to continue attacking a downed opponent? I fucking scored a knockdown on them. IRL if I knock you down in a fight, you get no advantage whatsoever and have to defend. I wouldn't exactly call myself "amazing" at this game but I've had zero problems getting up. What I've been having a problem with is maintaining pressure after a knockdown when I'm not Kasumi or Christie. Something is wrong when the optimal course of action to apply oki is to back off and let you get up. I cannot describe how many rounds I've blown by backing off from my opponent or getting hit by a CH WUK. It's stupid as hell (It's dumb in VF also though there are other ways to deal with it.)

Again, tech rolls are your friend. Don't stay on the ground if the opponent keeps hitting you on the ground. If the opponent keeps trying to "pressure" you on wake up, then you can stay on the ground and attempt a WUK (see how this metagame works now..?). Ask any of the Toronto players that have played me if I've had any problems getting up after a knockdown. I mostly suspect that you don't know how to get up properly. Tekken is a lot less forgiving after a knockdown. SC also gives the attacker no reason to back off after a knockdown which is how it should be.

Because it's a dick move. Reason enough for me not to BM people when I win a round either.

 

[StrikerSashi]

See, this is why the community gets a bad reputation. When people say stuff like, "But that's mean," it just throws away any credibility.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Because it's a dick move. Reason enough for me not to BM people when I win a round either.

-_-

This is a fighting name, not a Patty-Cake simulator. Every fighting game has ways to properly pressure on WU. DOA & VF are much more forgiving to the downed opponent than other games. It's also the reason why other games may seem more "hype" than DOA at times. I cannot describe how much of a momentum killer it is to see someone get a knockdown then just back off. It looks awful to spectators and makes the game look bad (unless you're like Ayane who thrives on Hit-and-Run tactics).

 

[TheRealCoxinator]

-_-

This is a fighting name, not a Patty-Cake simulator. Every fighting game has ways to properly pressure on WU. DOA & VF are much more forgiving to the downed opponent than other games. It's also the reason why other games may seem more "hype" than DOA at times. I cannot describe how much of a momentum killer it is to see someone get a knockdown then just back off. It looks awful to spectators and makes the game look bad (unless you're like Ayane who thrives on Hit-and-Run tactics).

Still a dick move. You might make someone quit the game because they believe it's full of dicks. When it's full of tits.

 

[gnooz]

Some people just want to kill opponent with one strike just go on and improve the game. I hate bounds in Tekken and I actually want a game without combos You should give the opponent a break!! I hate that someone learns a combo and doing it all the time fighting games based on this and this is so boring and annoying there is no mind game in this no strategy you don't need many moves with this kind of game people just want to knock down opponent and continue to combo to death.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Still a dick move. You might make someone quit the game because they believe it's full of dicks. When it's full of tits.

I'm pretty sure these scrubs would quit any Fighting Game they play and return to CoD.

@gnooz Play Divekick if you want to play an FG with no combos.

 

[gnooz]

I think game makers can improve a simple game like that( Divekick) not everything is about combos and ground game should exist but without connection. Improving shouldn't focus on more combos and more ground game. They should think about beginners and morons too

 

[XZero264]

We have tutorial mode for that.

 

[tokiopewpew]

I hate that someone learns a combo and doing it all the time fighting games based on this and this is so boring and annoying there is no mind game in this no strategy you don't need many moves with this kind of game people just want to knock down opponent and continue to combo to death.

Oh, there is a mind game, but that mostly happens before a combo comes into play. So if you are the one that get's juggled, it means you lost it. Most combos in DOA won't make you loose all your life and the fact that you can let the environment work for you means that you can perform a comeback very fast.

 

[gnooz]

Oh, there is a mind game, but that mostly happens before a combo comes into play. If you are the one that get's juggled, it means you lost it. Most combos in DOA won't make you loose all you life and the fact that you can let the environment work for you means that you can perform a comeback very fast.

Yes this is true it is no different than non combo mind games but dunno combos are so annoying as you say if you juggled you lost, guarenteed That is why I like DOA more than others holds are everything for me.

 

[J.D.E.]

I don't think some of you understand the concept of a fighting game & what actual purposes the mechanics serve.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

See, this is why the community gets a bad reputation. When people say stuff like, "But that's mean," it just throws away any credibility.

Well, alot of BS goes on in this game - I don't care who the character is! Yet, this game has already lost credibility being that most consider this a mashy title - and let's be real -- it IS!! I don't know what it will take to redeem this game's credibility! "I mash, you mash! We all mash!" See, what I'm saying? DOA requires zero skill and skill is NOT controller-screwing somebody with asinine juggles/combos! This is why this game has the reputation is does! It caters to the lowest common denominator. This is sad for the people who can actually play!

 

[StrikerSashi]

You can't really mash in this game. You'll get wrecked against someone who actually knows how to play.