Xbox-One Revealed
- Thread starter GeomighT
- Start date
Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
This is Microsoft...
I think frame rate differences are a big thing and we are talking about a 32 rops (GPU fill rate) console paired with a larger GDDR5 pool versus a 16 rop console paired with a smaller DDR3 pool. Even if developers keep the visuals the same on both systems the extra wasted power can easily be used to achieve higher frame rates. Having 3x the bandwidth and 2x the gpu fill rate will allow them effortlessly increase frames at the same graphical fidelity. Certain Devs are already talking about 60 versus 30 scenarios.
Isn't the whole point of releasing a new hardware every 5-7 years for the graphical improvement. I always thought the whole argument that technology/hardware/graphics don't matter is a moot point.
shunwong
Active Member
Then again, this tech stuff won't make one console sell more than the other. The best selling console of this generation was the least potent Wii.
Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
THIS is the truth.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
This should be known, PS3 was more powerful than the 360 but look how that turned out...
Anyways, I'm disappointed that in return for changing the policies Microsoft decided to remove the family share plan that allowed gamers to share their entire gaming library with up to 10 people. I don't think that's fair and it was definitely a feature that was a pro over the PS4. To me, now they're both are just gaming consoles that do the same thing as current gen consoles and the generation before that.
dawnbringer
Active Member
Speaking of sales, PS3 did outsell Xbox 360 eventually, although it came out later and had its problems.
The ps3 was a $100 more than 360 (and a year late) and now it is in reverse. This time ps4 has price and power over the competition. And the only true exclusives are going to be first party titles or MS published. Everything else is most likely timed.
synce
Well-Known Member
I think the only thing that's going to be in reverse next-gen is that games will look better on Sony's console instead of Microsoft's. The fact that PS3 sales eventually surpassed 360 is a testament to Sony's exclusives and nothing else. Now that they're releasing at the same time AND with a lower price it's over. An personally I would much rather play Last of Us 2 than Gears of War 5 or whatever number they're on.
I do not know, it would not have been profitable for them to keep the DRM policies in place while keeping the family share plan. Publishers are complaining about used games killing their profits but this is under the assumption that every and all persons who buy used games would have bought them new otherwise. And if they (the publishers) are worried about people selling, trading and buying their games used then they should put out games that have more than 1-2 days to a week of replay value or have their games on PC. It is bad enough that they are already raping people with DLC packs and Season Passes.
I do not believe that MS was going to follow through with them from the get go because they would have been in direct violation of EU's used game laws, there was no way that they would have be able to allow EU gamers to sell digital licenses while not allowing non-EU gamers to do so.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
3x the bandwidth is not exactly true, since the XBO has eSRAM to compensate for the lack of DDR3 bandwidth. Aside from that, even though GDDR5 is great for graphics, it's not so great for CPUs due to the high latency. The XBO might very well outperform the PS4 there.
Game Over
Well-Known Member
You're reaching.
It's been well documented that console games (particularly recent gens) have traditionally been bottlenecked on the GPU side of processing over the CPU side. Devs basically LOVE the fact that Sony put GDDR5 memory in the PS4, so I seriously doubt there will be much of any in-game differences to be seen between consoles coming from CPU (general processing) optimization.
And if we see ANYTHING in regards to that, it'll be the PS4 with the benefit, going on the rumors that MS might be lowering the clock speed of the X1 CPU (to 1.6Ghz, down from 2Ghz) in order to help offset their currently shaky production rates. But specific benefits will likely only be seen on exclusives, as multiplats will probably only get a SMALL boost in loading times since devs will want to keep as much of the code as possible the same, to damper production time/cost.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say I'm reaching. There's a reason PCs don't use GDDR5, and never used any GDDR as system memory. Sure, they'll be happy with it for the graphics. However, when it comes to things like AI, DDR3 simply has the edge over GDDR5. If all you're going for is graphics, the PS4 will probably blow the XBO away. If you're talking CPU intensive stuff, the XBO has the advantage, and such a game will end up being inferior on the PS4 due to the inability of the CPU to keep up with texture loading commands and so on. In general, it is true that the GPU is the bottleneck rather than the CPU, so, such games will be minimal. There are two popular games that are CPU intensive, and those are SimCity, and Skyrim. If the CPU lags behind, your powerful GPU will be insignificant. There are also balanced games like Crysis 3 and Borderlands 2, where the speed of both determine performance significantly.
In any case, it all kind of makes sense if you think about it. XBO was not really designed for pure gaming, unlike the PS4. MS is really trying to push the media hub thing. Sony is still gaming first, with a few sharing and vid stuff slapped on there. For all the software features MS are adding (or trying to, anyway), DDR3 does make more sense. Kinect support will probably also benefit more from DDR3 than GDDR5. For the hardcore gamers, PS4 still seems like the way to go.
Game Over
Well-Known Member
How much value such things like Kinect interaction will have for games remains to be seen. You also must consider, though, the factor that the multiple OS's that MS has running on the X1 allow only 5GB of memory to be available for games to run, whereas PS4 allows (estimatedly) 7GB of memory. That will likely play a SIGNIFICANT part in certain games.
But in the end, it all comes down to the choices devs make in regards to optimization on the consoles.
Console Wars: Is Microsoft Preparing to Go on the Offensive with Free Xbox Live?
^ Sounds like someone's getting desperate ...
But in the end, it all comes down to the choices devs make in regards to optimization on the consoles.
Console Wars: Is Microsoft Preparing to Go on the Offensive with Free Xbox Live?
^ Sounds like someone's getting desperate ...
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
For now, I don't think 5GB vs 7GB will make much of a difference. Devs have been learning how to deal with 512MB of slower RAM for the past 6-8 years. They've learned how to use memory efficiently, and they currently have at least ten times as much at their disposal. Currently, the best looking PC games use maybe 4GB at most, with all the garbage windows still has loaded in its memory. If you remove the amount of memory windows uses, you'll reach maybe 2GB. You can re-add 2GB if you want, which is on the GPU itself (generally, 1GB is still enough), still not being able to reach 5GB. The bandwidth is more important right now. The PS4 still has the advantage there. It's not exactly x3, but it's still more than what the XBO has I think, due to it being 'only' 32MB. I'm too lazy to calculate right now xD
In five years however, the 7GB might start to show its advantage over the 5GB. We don't know what we'll see in five years.. I would've never expected this gen would graphically put out things like Uncharted, Red Dead Redemption, Crysis, Assassin's Creed on such crappy hardware. So it's hard to say how much 2GB of difference will matter in the future.
What I fear is that this large amount of memory will allow for sloppy coding for the first few years, causing some performance issues in the XBO when they reach the 5GB limit of it, while the sloppy coding still works fine for the PS4. This time around, the XBO is the one that's slightly harder to code for due to the eSRAM. Not that it's at the PS3 level of complexity, but whatever, I digress. Sloppy coding + slightly more complex architecture = higher chance for bad performance in future. Another reason the PS4 might be a better choice lol.
In five years however, the 7GB might start to show its advantage over the 5GB. We don't know what we'll see in five years.. I would've never expected this gen would graphically put out things like Uncharted, Red Dead Redemption, Crysis, Assassin's Creed on such crappy hardware. So it's hard to say how much 2GB of difference will matter in the future.
What I fear is that this large amount of memory will allow for sloppy coding for the first few years, causing some performance issues in the XBO when they reach the 5GB limit of it, while the sloppy coding still works fine for the PS4. This time around, the XBO is the one that's slightly harder to code for due to the eSRAM. Not that it's at the PS3 level of complexity, but whatever, I digress. Sloppy coding + slightly more complex architecture = higher chance for bad performance in future. Another reason the PS4 might be a better choice lol.
Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
Called it. LMMFAO
The data doesn't stay in the eSRAM. It has to eventually go into the DDR3 pool and that is where the bottleneck can occur. Also if Microsoft chose to solve the heat issue by down-clocking the GPU due to bad yeilds (due to eSRAM), this will lower the eSRAM's bandwidth to the point that it counter-acts adding it in the first place.
Also the eSRAM is only 32mb in size which questionable for holding HD frames (especially 1080p) with anything intensive going on.
The latency disparity between gddr5 and ddr3 ram is small and as far as graphical data rendering is concerned bandwidth > latency. latency is more important for general purpose computing which is why in the "PC" market they still use DDR3 to run the Wintel (windows/intel) environment. PS4 is a gaming console not a general purpose PC.
Video cards with both types of ram have been tested. GDDR5 always out-preforms ddr3 on same video card for PC games. Why do you think all high end desktop cards use GDDR5 and not DDR3. Only low end cards use DDR3.
You should check this page of the thread out.
Two identical video cards put to the test with one having GDDR5 and the other having DDR3.
http://freestepdodge.com/threads/xbox-one-revealed.2850/page-2
Resident evil 5 was able to achieve double the frame rate on GDDR5 over its DDR3 counter part and both have the same video card.
Actually it is the GPU, Game over, they are considering lowering. This is the very reason MS never confirmed the GPU clock-speed for the xbox one and are keeping quiet. The eSRAM is large with bad yields and heating issues. This is a general issue for eSRAM.
Game Over
Well-Known Member
That doesn't sound very tournament friendly. Might wanna ask DrDogg about that one.