"You are tearing me apart, Lisa!" The Lisa Strategy thread

[Batcommander]

Yeah, I know, but I don`t have ps3 and I haven´t tried the patch, so I guess that movement cancels the wake up kick, am I right?

But if the opponent techs, but doesn´t sidestep I´ll get a huge guard break, no?

hmm, i have a little trouble understanding you. What happens now is that if you use a move that does more than 20 damage at a specific time during an opponent's wakeup kick, you will crush the wakeup kick. The window is really small. So if an opponent tech rolls, there is no need to crush anything (they gave up their wakeup kick to tech roll).

I've tried splash in training against wakeup kicks, and Lisa just flies over their head if you're in wakeup kick range; you need to be outside range apparently. Also, the timing is tough, you end up getting hit most of the time. It is probably better to use a heavy ground attack or 1K to force tech them tbh.

The other bad thing, if you try to crush a wakeup with, say, 6K, and you miss, you end up eating a fat ass stun. Like +28 advantage to the opponent.

It's really not worth it imo, especially since wakeup kicks are nerfed now.

 

[ailingeternity]

Since I do not have a PS3 I have a few questions;

How is 7P faring out as a viable option for CB? Are Lisa's BT transitions enough for a follow-up without SE?
I remember in the patch update notes there was mention of a BT transition for 9P (and it's variants), is this useful?
Lastly, is 66PP a string to be feared? I've seen that this only works in open stance, I find this extremely lame...

(On a side note I can't find anything on the update for the 360, any ideas when it'll be? I've scoured the forums....)

 

[Batcommander]

Since I do not have a PS3 I have a few questions;

How is 7P faring out as a viable option for CB? Are Lisa's BT transitions enough for a follow-up without SE?
I remember in the patch update notes there was mention of a BT transition for 9P (and it's variants), is this useful?
Lastly, is 66PP a string to be feared? I've seen that this only works in open stance, I find this extremely lame...

(On a side note I can't find anything on the update for the 360, any ideas when it'll be? I've scoured the forums....)

First off, love the Roxxy avatar! I take it you are team Rolaskatox?

On to your other questions, 7P is cool. The BT transitions are still the same, meaning the only one that is non SEable is still PP4. The new 3K4 misses out by one frame, being SE'able to 21 frames (7P is i20). I don't use it as much, since it is a bit slow, and some people can see it on reaction.

9PP and friends is still assy, still has the same high ass hitbox and whiffs often, but if you use it go into BT, you can get anywhere from +5-7 on block depending on how deep you land it.

66PP is, in my own opinion, also ass. I know others feel differently, which is of course more than okay It is exactly the same as 1.02 except it can cause a limbo stun in open. Still slow, still unsafe, still a high punch starter. It also doesn't work on crouching opponents and low holders (or at least, is extremely unreliable), so there is no great reward against people that guess wrongly in anticipation of 66KK.
edit: okay, im trippin. it seems the crouching issue is fixed in 1.03a!

I think the 360 version comes out this month, so cross your fingers!

On to some bad news
The new 64 throw >>booty bump>>launch combo is NOT a guaranteed combo

An opponent can hold down and instead of getting the new "on-your-knees" stun, the booty bump will cause a "ass-in-the-air" stun, which is SE able. From there, they can hold whatever move you throw out at them. Lame.

TN can fix this by having the stun act the same against BT crouchers as well (don't even know why they added this new "ass-in-the-air" stun to begin with).

So be mindful when you use this move. The booty bump is still guaranteed. However, if you see the opponent get an "ass-in-the-air" stun, prepare to mix it up. I suppose you could land a mid if you know an opponent holds down after 64 throw, but then this move just becomes the 50/50 mess it was in 1.02. And it's slower at i12 frames.

Another bad note: If you manage to land a carrera OH on a BT opponent, and they tech roll, you are left at -15. It's like the animation gets cut short or something, so i think this is a glitch.

Some good news?

Not sure if this was the case in 1.02, but qcf P and Carrera P+K can be reduced to a -9 guard break (instead of -18), depending on how deep you land the move. You have to land it at the tip. Yeah, you're still in low throw punish territory, but its better than being at -18. Some people can get sitdown stuns with that much frame advantage, especially since you're considered crouching during recovery.

Also, 9K if used at a distance can become +0-2 depending on how deep it hits on block as well.

Going back to the 64throw>>booty bump combo: if you do manage to get that "on-your-knees-stun" from the booty bump, KK becomes a natural combo and puts the opponent at critical threshold.

edit: more good news: CH PP and CH PK are now natural combos!

 

[ailingeternity]

Sounds to me like she hasn't changed much at all, a few buffs here and there but nothing that's going to change her core playstyle, I love the sound of SS to BT, using 8P before a match doesn't seem practical to me though, if she could SS from BT that would be great to throw off any fast mids that don't track.

I'll still be using Deja Vu as my i12 throw so I'm not concerned about booty bump at all, i11 P is nice. Disappointed about 66PP though, I think it's a decent string as it is but no guaranteed limbo stun is a little annoying, I don't understand all this open/closed stance bull, it has no relevance to the mechanics of the game, if a string is gonna work in open stance, make it work in closed stance too. It also makes no sense to me why they would reduce the recovery of her BT transitions but not allow guaranteed CB from BT 7P other than PP4. It still makes her easy to SE. I'm dying for this frickin' update so I can test this stuff out for myself

And yes team Rolaskatoxx all the way!

 

[synce]

Nice find on 64T being SE'able... Certainly a loss but fortunately it's not too often you have to throw out an i11 punish I personally love 66PP/K mixup. That along with upgraded BT 7P and 9K really push Lisa over the top. The smaller lifebar really helps too. Will upload some stuff if 360 patch releases this year!

 

[Batcommander]

Sounds to me like she hasn't changed much at all, a few buffs here and there but nothing that's going to change her core playstyle, I love the sound of SS to BT, using 8P before a match doesn't seem practical to me though, if she could SS from BT that would be great to throw off any fast mids that don't track.

I'll still be using Deja Vu as my i12 throw so I'm not concerned about booty bump at all, i11 P is nice. Disappointed about 66PP though, I think it's a decent string as it is but no guaranteed limbo stun is a little annoying, I don't understand all this open/closed stance bull, it has no relevance to the mechanics of the game, if a string is gonna work in open stance, make it work in closed stance too. It also makes no sense to me why they would reduce the recovery of her BT transitions but not allow guaranteed CB from BT 7P other than PP4. It still makes her easy to SE. I'm dying for this frickin' update so I can test this stuff out for myself

And yes team Rolaskatoxx all the way!

Yeah, i think the open/closed stance stuff is crappy too. She received some great things, but like you said, her basic gameplay remains the same (which is not bad at all).

Oh yeah, you can't move when you use 8P before the round starts either, so that kinda blows. I still like using it to bait people with BT backdash at the beginning of round, though.

Though you can't land a BT 7P against someone that SE's, you can still get BT 4P off; the new 3K4 gives a shitload of stun to work with now.

BT jab is still i13, however.

Nice find on 64T being SE'able... Certainly a loss but fortunately it's not too often you have to throw out an i11 punish I personally love 66PP/K mixup. That along with upgraded BT 7P and 9K really push Lisa over the top. The smaller lifebar really helps too. Will upload some stuff if 360 patch releases this year!

I do think that the smaller lifebar and increased effectiveness of sidesteps are the biggest buffs to Lisa. I'm bummed that the booty bump can be SE'd from 64throw, because Lisa actually had an easy way to get to critical, since KK is a natural combo against BT opponent! Then you could mixup with a CB or, if they try to hold it, use another 64throw for some hilarious shenanigans!

Oh yeah, i just found out that, while CH PP and CH PK are natural combos now, they are not natural combos if used on an already stunned opponent -_-

ex: CH 1PK, PP/PK can be held or evaded with low hold.-_-

It will also not work on a BT opponent either.

It does have some use though, more specifically when attempting to interrupt strings.

 

[Gruff757]

I've been trying to find some viable set-ups for body splash, because i feel that it's a great asset in her arsenal and is pretty much her best guard break since it leaves the user at +17 which grants a free i15 > strike such as PP, PK, KK, K6K4, 6PP

i've mentioned one on the previous page, anyone got any nice little BT P+K setups?

 

[Batcommander]

I've been trying to find some viable set-ups for body splash, because i feel that it's a great asset in her arsenal and is pretty much her best guard break since it leaves the user at +17 which grants a free i15 > strike such as PP, PK, KK, K6K4, 6PP

i've mentioned one on the previous page, anyone got any nice little BT P+K setups?

Honestly . . . nope lol. I think body splash is a high risk/high reward move; there's no viable way to build a strategy off it (but damn, do i wish you could! lol) There's too many ways to avoid it, not to mention it's ass slow. It's best used to catch someone off guard (or more specifically, when they're on guard ).

Here are some ways to land it:
--on a tech rolling opponent
--after force teching an opponent with 9K (ex: if they don't tech roll after being hit by 6KK)
--after 7K>>splash feint
--PPPsplash and Carrera P>>splash are two underused strings worth considering
--knocking an opponent down with KK ex: CH 1PK, KK (opponent gets knocked down)K, body splash

I would be wary of using it during stun too, unfortunately. The move is so slow, someone can hold and recover before even being hit by the move--and don't forget this move is parryable by mid punch hold as well!

 

[Gruff757]

Yeah you have a point about the high risk & reward factor. You pretty much deserve to get fucked up if you get hit by things like BTP+K, 6H+K, P+K, 9K, 66PP/K(?), naked 236K(4), etc.

btw, is there any reasonable reason to use 33K? It sucks as a launcher imo, even on max threshold, only thing it has over 33P and 8K is damage but has such a shit liftoff. does anyone ever really use it outside of maybe a mixup? hell, even then, i dont see anyone use it.

p.s. sorry if my questions seem random and pointless, im just trying to get some more discussion going in here along with some nice idea pitching

 

[ailingeternity]

btw, is there any reasonable reason to use 33K? It sucks as a launcher imo, even on max threshold, only thing it has over 33P and 8K is damage but has such a shit liftoff. does anyone ever really use it outside of maybe a mixup? hell, even then, i dont see anyone use it.

p.s. sorry if my questions seem random and pointless, im just trying to get some more discussion going in here along with some nice idea pitching

33K is one of the best additions Lisa got in DOA5, it's not used enough imo. Abuse the fact that nobody looks for it. It doesn't have great launch height but it is her fastest front facing launcher (i16) and grants her better mix-up opportunities during the stun game, especially when people are usually looking for Deja Vu and 33P most of the time. Outside of that it is pretty useless, -13 on block and has shitty range so sadly it's not viable for CH launches.

For the record, the fact you're asking questions is great for people who are unsure about or are new to Lisa, keep em coming.

 

[Gruff757]

Alrighty then, thanks ailing.

Hmm...whats something else we can speak on around here....

Carrera! Let's talk Carrera. How often do we directly utilize this tool? How do we personally utilize it in a fight? etc.

 

[Nightpup]

None of you ever mention Carrera P4. It's fast and sends you into BT. This is a viable CB setup for 1.02: 7K6, Carrera P4, BT booty, BT 7P. Well yeah 7P isn't a CB in 1.02 but it seems like it'd be good for 1.03A.

 

[ailingeternity]

Carrera P is only good to use during stun since you get lots of advantage, on it's own your choices are limited, from there you can mess around and mix-up. It's not a bad poking tool since it tracks but you have to be pretty precise when landing it but as a high it's still avoidable.

 

[synce]

I never use any carrera moves personally, just the feints

 

[Gruff757]

One of my staple combos is 7K6 carP4 bt7K bt4P aThrow awesome combo when the opponent doesnt realize the double high lol

 

[Nightpup]

Does booty bump guarantee a critical burst?

 

[ailingeternity]

One of my staple combos is 7K6 carP4 bt7K bt4P aThrow awesome combo when the opponent doesnt realize the double high lol

With that combo, after you launch with BT 7K try cancelling back into front facing with and then juggle immediately after with 4PK then 7K > Carrera and then air grab, it's a really strong combo that doesn't utilize CB. It'll take some time getting used to though.

Does booty bump guarantee a critical burst?

No it doesn't, it's just a 2 hit stun.

 

[Nightpup]

With that combo, after you launch with BT 7K try cancelling back into front facing with and then juggle immediately after with 4PK then 7K > Carrera and then air grab, it's a really strong combo that doesn't utilize CB. It'll take some time getting used to though.


No it doesn't, it's just a 2 hit stun.

No, I mean if you use it at the end of stun.

 

[Batcommander]

No, I mean if you use it at the end of stun.

If you use booty bump at the end of stun, it just knocks the opponent down. Also, BT 7P in 1.03a is not guaranteed at all if you stun an opponent with booty bump--that is, if they slow escape. Booty bump is great, but it still doesn't give a deep stun or anything.

Just to add on about 33K: Grunt dude used this to great effect if you check out his vids in the video thread. Basically he would stun with CH 1PK, then go straight for launcher, either 33P or 33K. You can even try 8K if you like too. Lisa doesn't even need to play stun game that much to do good damage, which is a great advantage.

 

[Gruff757]

With that combo, after you launch with BT 7K try cancelling back into front facing with and then juggle immediately after with 4PK then 7K > Carrera and then air grab, it's a really strong combo that doesn't utilize CB. It'll take some time getting used to though.


No it doesn't, it's just a 2 hit stun.

whoops forgot to type part of the juggle

7K6 carP4 bt7K bt4P 4PK aThrow ~ 124dmg on NH, 169dmg on HCH, aThrow fails on CH for some reason.