Rachel nerfs
- Thread starter vINv
- Start date
vINv
Active Member
ppl are crying way to much it is not the stomp that is broken omg learn how to tech roll u can ss after stomp there is time to counter its no diff from what we dealt with from tina in doa five regular there is nothing guranteed after the stomp u just have to stand there and work on ur reaction time between her 4pp tracking move or her 66k frame advantage move the only nerf id call for is her launch throw turn it into a low dmg frame adv throw and lower the dmg on 4 throw think that would b reasonble rachel has no defense only offense nerfing must b done with common sense i dont want this game to b viewd as a community of CRY BABIES WHO CANT LEARN HOW TO PLY MATCH UPS i would love to g to evo for this game but if all these whiners keep it up this games gunna die just like the doas before it
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FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
As somebody who mains Rachel, I can see why people find her infuriating due to her stomp. The +15 afterwards pretty much allows her to do whatever she pleases. Even if they tech roll she's still at +15, so whether it hits or not she's still in the advantage unlike the rest of the cast. If an opponent tech rolls other characters FTs they're forced to go back to the defensive, where as Rachel can just keep going. All roads lead to the stomp with her as well... so if they keep juggling into stomp it can be endless unless guessed correctly.
The only thing people should hate about her is her stomp, because other than that she's ok at best. All her range attacks can be SSed, she really only has the advantage after they've been juggled due to the FT. Without that she'd probably be purely defensive. She isn't slow, but most characters can beat her out speed wise ( Apart from Bayman, Leon and Bass. )
So if you're hating on Rachel regardless of stomp... then I don't understand! xD but with stomp, I completely understand.
phoenix1985gr
Active Member
Tina could only force tech you from 3 or 4 moves, and if she decided to throw you, you take the damage and you re on the ground with a regular wake up game... If Rachel decides to throw you you get put back in the same position... So until you guess right she gets going...
vINv
Active Member
first of all y are u guessing u cant do that against rachel u have to train urself to notice her animations and the only real differnce is tina didnt have a 66k frame advantage follow up +4 but it is simlar mechanic as i said before its not the stomp thats broken its the theart of a launch throw that resets do i tech roll or dont tech roll threat with out it rachel would b easier to manage against
vINv
Active Member
he gets it with out her stomp she will suck she cant b played defensively she easy to out space with almost ne char almost every one has better spacing then her and under pressure she really blows she has to b on the offensive i agree though whiffing a stomp and not reading the oppenents decision to tech or not tech is lame that needs nerfed along with launch throw leave the stomp alone its key to her offense and if they get caught so be it as far im concerned her stomp is like genfu or eliot or janlee or millas or hitomis frame adv grab theres nothing guranteed after it u just need to learn to react instead of guess....
phoenix1985gr
Active Member
Tina has 46P thats + on block, but yeah thats not the problem the problem is that throws that launch, open up the stun game to characters with force techs from every launch height is kinda ridiculous
Is this serious? People are suppose to react to 12f throws? That's completely impossible unless the first frame of the move is extremely telegraphed AND you're only watching for that one thing AND you have extremely fast reactions.
vINv
Active Member
smh did i not say nerf the launch throw u need to read before responding nerf her 236 throw:/ and its possible ive done it before its not easy but yes ive flash ducked and so have a few of my friends so yea if train hard enough its possible but it needs to b slower or nerfed all together
No, you predicted, not reacted to it. Reacting to 12f moves is pretty much impossible.
EDIT: But it doesn't need to be nerfed. What needs to be nerfed are her launchers.
EDIT: But it doesn't need to be nerfed. What needs to be nerfed are her launchers.
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
Tina actually had vortex that did +17i (FC 3P) on doa5... excuse me if my math is wrong but isn't 17 bigger than 15? Then Tina has better mixup potential than Rachel... all you really have to do on Rachel is go all in or turtle the shit out of her, and it's like free wins, just learn the matchup please.
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
In defense of the game in general, ALL launch throws are 12i (Izunas, Raijins, Kasumi's 236T) they're all launch throws that come out at the same speed as Rachel's launch throw... and my friend who plays in Japan says that launch punishable in DOA is -12i or worse so... yeah. It does IMO leave a lot of characters without 12i launch at disadvantage of lower punish damage. I'd say that punish grabs should do Hi-counter damage (maybe just counter damage for launch throws) then again Tina's 426T is 102 on Hi-counter, and max damage from Rachel's launch throw is 105 on Hi-counter (I'm not even going to include Leon throws or the Jacky Bryant Knee throw that does almost half health, and is fast as shit -_-). So the damage from launch grabs in general is about the same as getting hit with a good 426T or 4T from many other charcters (except Zack... sorry Zack players)
vINv
Active Member
no its not u dont ply tekken oblivously we react to ten frame moves all the time step ur game up theres nothing wrong with 1pp or her 9 k or the other one i cant rember nerf the launch throw if u wanna nerf launchers lets nerf momiji and ayane zZZ who only need one hit to launch excuse me one stun hell saras 2k one hit launch that just sounds ridculous and if rachel players are launching u all day step ur offense up and apply more mid pressure.......christie hitomi janlee genfu hayate sara ryu alpha ayane momji all good picks vs rachel also lisa and especially LEI FANG
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Lyn
Member
This.
Hahahahahahahahaha!
FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
So you're telling me every time a Rachel player does the stomp FT you never get hit by a follow up because you're used to reacting to 10 frame moves due to Tekken? wouldn't that make DOA an incredibly easy game for you then since every move in the game ( for the most part ) is above 10 frames? That would also mean you never get hit by throws unless it's during you countering?
I'm slightly confused by your attitude towards this tbh xD
I think the thing you're forgetting is, yes the throw is 12 frames, but when you're at -15 after the stomp... it's kinda difficult to react to it. It's not a random throw thrown out while both players are at 0. When you're at -15 it turns into a guessing game... I don't think there is much chance to react in that situation. Buuut maybe I'm just terrible ;P
Eh... everyone has their own opinions I guess. =] such is life~
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
Okay... we (vINv and myself) don't react to 10i moves, we simply recognize animations because 9 out of 10 times, people don't base their mixup off of animation (unless you're like me and play feng, steve, and zafina) but instead the average player who mildly knows what frames are mixes up based on move speed. What this means, is that they simply look at their frame advantage and throw out moves based on the frame advantage they have, and this used to be a problem of mine... the challenge of using frame advantage; whether you play the numbers game, or the mind games.
A perfect example of this would be Lisa/La Mariposa's 6H+K; it's +2i on block, but she only has one truly viable option if you're going to play the safe option of the numbers game, 4H+K, if they challenge the frame advantage they lose a good 40-50(?) damage for their efforts. After awhile of me using this strat one of my friends/my mentor just started to blow up the setup on reaction because it was either a mid kick, a mid punch, or a grab; none of the options had similar animations, but their frames were similar... this is when I learned to differentiate between using frame advantage for the numbers, or for the extra mixup. So you can see for yourself look at the animations on all of Rachel's 13i-15i moves; you'll find that many of the animations are nowhere near the same, then throw the grab in there and see what you get, then finally throw in the 66T throw... If you pay attention enough at high level play, many mixups don't come from them being the same speed, they come from either the same animation or you conditioning the opponent to react a certain way...