DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread

[StrikerSashi]

I don't actually use holds like that, I use strikes to catch whiffs. Like I make a prediction to when Ayane's gonna do a 3H+K or something based on her movements and I FC3P to catch her right after her active frames run out. I'll try holds in the future and see if I get better results.

As for hitting her before she gets away... Well, I have pretty much a 0 success rate with catching her after blocking 3H+K. I've tried 9PP but it either gets blocked and then punished, or she just backdashes away and punish my whiff.

 

[Requiem]

I don't actually use holds like that, I use strikes to catch whiffs. Like I make a prediction to when Ayane's gonna do a 3H+K or something based on her movements and I FC3P to catch her right after her active frames run out. I'll try holds in the future and see if I get better results.

As for hitting her before she gets away... Well, I have pretty much a 0 success rate with catching her after blocking 3H+K. I've tried 9PP but it either gets blocked and then punished, or she just backdashes away and punish my whiff.

Yeah, 3H+K is specific, unlike some other stuff. On block, you have to either approach with strings or H+K on a backdash, but +0 means you have to play the mindgame.

It, however, can get blown up on wiff and it's a mid kick. You have the right idea; sometimes it's smart to move into the general range where you might see it coming and then back off so it wiffs and strike it. You absolutely can (and should!) be baiting it with a mid kick hold. It will be worth your while if you learn to see it coming. This doesn't negate the tool, but it force the Ayane to be careful with it so it opens you then in other ways.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Ayane's Match up;

vs Akira: 5-5
vs Alpha 6-4
vs Ayane 5-5
vs Bass 6-4
vs Bayman 6-4
vs Brad Wong 6-4
vs Christie 5-5
vs Ein 6-4
vs Eliot 6-4
vs Genfu 4-6
vs Hayate 5-5
vs Helena 5-5
vs Hitomi 5-5
vs Jacky 5-5 (TBD)
vs Jannlee 6-4
vs Kasumi 5-5
vs Kokoro 6-4
vs Leifang 5-5
vs Leon 6-4
vs Lisa 5-5
vs Marie Rose 6-4
vs Mila 5-5
vs Momiji 5-5
vs Pai 5-5
vs Rachel 6-4
vs Rig 5-5 (TBD)
vs Ryu Hayabusa 5-5
vs Sarah 5-5
vs Tina 6-4
vs Zack 6-4

Favorable: 13
Fair: 17
Unfavorable: 1

 

[Matt Ponton]

I hear this said about every single character by those who main them.

Bass is tuff.

 

[Brute]

Bass is tuff.

But Bass is actually tough. xD

 

[Matt Ponton]

Ayane's Match up;

vs Akira: 5-5
vs Alpha 6-4
vs Ayane 5-5
vs Bass 6-4
vs Bayman 6-4
vs Brad Wong 6-4
vs Christie 5-5
vs Ein 6-4
vs Eliot 6-4
vs Genfu 5-5
vs Hayate 5-5
vs Helena 5-5
vs Hitomi 5-5
vs Jacky 5-5 (TBD)
vs Jannlee 6-4
vs Kasumi 5-5
vs Kokoro 6-4
vs Leifang 5-5
vs Leon 6-4
vs Lisa 5-5
vs Marie Rose 6-4
vs Mila 5-5
vs Momiji 5-5
vs Pai 5-5
vs Rachel 6-4
vs Rig 5-5 (TBD)
vs Ryu Hayabusa 5-5
vs Sarah 5-5
vs Tina 6-4
vs Zack 6-4

Favorable: 13
Fair: 17

With those changes, the following is the updated FSD tier list:
S - Gen Fu
A - Kasumi, Sarah, Ayane, Christie, Leifang, Helena, Pai
B - Akira, Hayate, Jann Lee, Jacky, Alpha-152, Momiji, Ryu, Bass, Bayman, Mila, Rig, Lisa, Hitomi, Marie Rose, Zack
C - Ein, Tina, Brad, Leon, Rachel, Kokoro
D - Eliot

 

[Brute]

At this rate we'll get a dichotomous tier list:
Gen Fu Tier
Other Chumps Tier

 

[Zeo]

I still can't get with that list. Sarah is vastly overrated and in no way is top 3. Helena and Pai above Akira? Jann Lee in B? Hitomi on the lower half of B? Ein above Rachel, Leon and Kokoro?

The only thing that everyone seems to agree upon is that Gen's the definitive best character in the game.

 

[Brute]

I still can't get with that list. Sarah is vastly overrated and in no way is top 3. Helena and Pai above Akira? Jann Lee in B? Hitomi on the lower half of B? Ein above Rachel, Leon and Kokoro?

The only thing that everyone seems to agree upon is that Gen's the definitive best character in the game.

Again, it's not even close to complete because of lack of participation.

If you're complaining that Akira is too low, by all means, contribute some MU suggestions for him. He won't magically jump up the tier list until someone does the work.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I already said what top 10 is and Requiem is in agreement (although he has Christie in front of Leifang). Sarah is not really better than these other characters. Certainly not Akira.

This is my top 10;

S: genfu
A+: Leifang, Ayane, Christie, Hitomi
A:Jannlee, Hayate, Helena, Akira, Momiji

Requiem has genfu, Christie, Ayane, Leifang and Jann lee as his top 5.

EDIT: Some reasoning about the change in letter grading and some things I said earlier in my previous post. DOA5U is a very balanced game. Unlike a game such as SSF4 AE (which is also pretty balanced), character match ups have a bigger toll from top tier to say mid tier, and low tier. Some or most match ups are either favorable or really difficult for some mid tier characters versus a top tier (always depends on players of course). Thus they have SSS, SS, S, A, etc etc.

DOA5U does not have any character in the game who just flat out wrecks the cast. DOA has characters where everyone can actually fight someone else pretty well, or well enough. No one is broken or overpowered, some just have the ability to shift the momentum in their favor more often than others. While some also just seem to have better tools overall than most. That's why the letter grading starts at S, and the next is A+. In my honest opinion, I do not believe any character is terrible in this game. So I do not believe there is anything below C, which describes a character being awful if they are in D or F.

Certain characters I said were possibly top 10 earlier are not in my top 10 because I re-evaluated them and other characters who are in it. Most would think Momiji doesn't really have a lot going for her, I urge folks to look again. I also believe that Akira is the best virtua fighter character in this game compared to the other three. Who are all generally pretty strong anyway, but I don't see Sarah being any better than Akira at all.

Having frame traps and good frame advantage is always a good thing to have, but it is not the end-all-be-all of DOA. Defining practically the entire rule set of DOA is what makes a character outstanding in this game. This game has a heavy influence on environmental interaction, and the top 3 take huge advantage of that aspect, which is one reason alone why they are above everyone else (lots of characters take advantage of that but some have the ability to do it from almost everything they do, more than others).

 

[Brute]

Again, doesn't work on general sentiment. If you feel those characters belong in a certain spot, share complete MU listings for each respective character and they should be placed accordingly.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Again, doesn't work on general sentiment. If you feel those characters belong in a certain spot, share complete MU listings for each respective character and they should be placed accordingly.

lol, I didn't say it works on general sentiment. I gave my opinion and some reasoning for it, which is what the topic is about, discussion.

 

[J.D.E.]

Kasumi
vs Akira 5-5
vs Alpha 5-5 ???
vs Ayane 5-5
vs Bass 5-5 ???
vs Bayman 5-5
vs Brad Wong 6-4
vs Christie 5-5
vs Ein 6-4
vs Eliot 6-4
vs Gen Fu 5-5
vs Hayate 5-5
vs Helena 5-5
vs Hitomi 5-5
vs Jacky 5-5 ???
vs Jann Lee 5-5
vs Kasumi 5-5
vs Kokoro 6-4
vs Lei Fang 5-5
vs Leon 6-4
vs Lisa 6-4
vs Marie Rose 5-5 ???
vs Mila 5-5 ???
vs Momiji 5-5
vs Pai 5-5
vs Rachel 6-4
vs Rig 6-4
vs Ryu Hayabusa 5-5 ???
vs Sarah 5-5
vs Tina 6-4
vs Zack 6-4

 

[Force_of_Nature]

And "50/50" is really being generous, considering she has a lot more than two options coming out of that and you cannot cover all of them with only two responses.


This crap on HiC with explosive dangerzones makes Ryu/Leon's best throws look like child's play. Hitomi's wall game is great for a variety of reasons, but fear of this bastard puts it into overdrive.


According to the people who main them, every character is "like that."

Well, Ayane, Hayabusa, Eliot and the VF's seem pretty hard at both a high level and low level. Some characters, such as Momiji & Rachel, are clearly designed to be beginner characters that get balanced by not being braindead at higher levels *coughsgenfucoughs*. I like the system where the harder to use characters are supposedly better than the easier to use beginner characters. It properly rewards the amount of effort you take to learn a character proper (in a perfect world of course).

With regards to Hitomi, she is really good in 5U, I'm talking High Tier good. She's just so damn well-rounded in almost every area. She's pretty much effective against everyone in one way or another. Also, 9H & 6T...

Edit: @iHajinShinobi Yeah, I suspected that the Ayane/GenFu MU may be 5-5, because Ayane's Expert Punch Hold can fuck him over at certain times plus the relative difference in effective attack ranges can balance out his ridiculous offense a bit. It's still Ayane's most pain in the ass MU IMHO.

 

[Requiem]

Here we go. For Helena.

vs Akira 5-5
vs Alpha 6-4
vs Ayane 5-5
vs Bass 6-4
vs Bayman 6-4
vs Brad 5-5
vs Christie 5-5
vs Ein 6-4
vs Eliot 6-4
vs Gen Fu 4-6
vs Hayate 5-5
vs Hitomi 5-5
vs Jacky 5-5
vs Jann 5-5
vs Kasumi 5-5
vs Kokoro 5-5
vs Lei Fang 5-5
vs Leon 6-4
vs Marie 5-5
vs Momiji 5-5
vs Pai 5-5
vs Rachel 5-5
vs Rig 5-5
vs Ryu 5-5
vs Sarah 5-5
vs Tina 5-5
vs Zack 5-5

I'm mixing my sentiment and not here, with the mindset that most match ups are really genuinely even but I've highlighted ones where Helena does feel a little stronger. I also listed the Gen Fu one negatively, even if I feel that it can be played as a 5-5.

 

[Prince Adon]

.....Let's all bow our heads...and pray about this <3. In the end, we shall all agree...that I am the best in the world. ^____^

 

[StrikerSashi]

Why don't we use decimals? Forcing stuff into 5-5, 4-6, and 6-4 seems stupid when we can just call it what it is.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Yeah, 3H+K is specific, unlike some other stuff. On block, you have to either approach with strings or H+K on a backdash, but +0 means you have to play the mindgame.

It, however, can get blown up on wiff and it's a mid kick. You have the right idea; sometimes it's smart to move into the general range where you might see it coming and then back off so it wiffs and strike it. You absolutely can (and should!) be baiting it with a mid kick hold. It will be worth your while if you learn to see it coming. This doesn't negate the tool, but it force the Ayane to be careful with it so it opens you then in other ways.

I actually sometimes intentionally whiff 3H+K because of how much space it effectively controls as a zoning technique. But your suggestions could work! (It's -3 on block if I'm not mistaken but I wouldn't mind it being 0 again )

 

[DontForkWitMe]

I agree with sashi decimals should be allowed in discussing match up ratings because there are characters i feel that are overall better but not 6-4 better. for example characters like christie, genfu ayane are definitely 6-4 against Leon but there are other characters that i feel are better than him but not good enough to be considered 6-4 against him like helena, hayate, rig etc same goes for the opposite i think Leon is better than characters like Ein,Bass, Rachel ,Tina but hes more like 5.5-4.5 rather than 6-4 on them. also stage choice heavily influences his strength to the point where 6-4 disadvantage matchups turn into 5.5-4.5 in his favor and his 5.5-4.5 advantage matchups turn to 6-4

so if you deduce the amount of breakable object as mathematical calculations such as a bench equating to .1 added on to match up ratings and the diameter of the stage as .05 then add these two together in the basic match up rating by the percent likely outcome Leon will knock you into various objects. so in a place like home there are 24 breakable objects so in turn you take the 24 divided by the diameter of home which consists of 9 enclosed rooms and each room consist of at least 15ft length and 10ft width while the outside portion of home being circular so you have add in the circumference and subtract that by the percent chance an opponent knocks Leon outside which i averaged a 34.014% and add that the the percent change the Leon player accidentally knocks the opponent outside which i deducted is at 9.678% so you take the 34.014% and add it with 9.678% you wind up with 43.692%.afterwards you take the 90.236% chance Leon will knock you into an object which grants him guaranteed 60%-90% damage already added on to whatever opponents default match up rating is, then you wind up with a 50% increase added to Leon's favor

Below is how i came up with this conclusion

Spoiler

 

[Matt Ponton]

Kasumi
vs Akira 5-5
vs Alpha 5-5 ???
vs Bass 5-5 ???
vs Bayman 5-5
vs Brad Wong 6-4
vs Christie 5-5
vs Ein 6-4
vs Eliot 6-4
vs Gen Fu 5-5
vs Hayate 5-5
vs Helena 5-5
vs Jacky 5-5 ???
vs Jann Lee 5-5
vs Kasumi 5-5
vs Kokoro 6-4
vs Lei Fang 5-5
vs Leon 6-4
vs Lisa 6-4
vs Marie Rose 5-5 ???
vs Mila 5-5 ???
vs Momiji 5-5
vs Pai 5-5
vs Rachel 6-4
vs Rig 6-4
vs Ryu Hayabusa 5-5 ???
vs Sarah 5-5
vs Tina 6-4
vs Zack 6-4

Here we go. For Helena.

vs Akira 5-5
vs Alpha 6-4
vs Ayane 5-5
vs Bass 6-4
vs Bayman 6-4
vs Brad 5-5
vs Christie 5-5
vs Ein 6-4
vs Eliot 6-4
vs Gen Fu 4-6
vs Hayate 5-5
vs Hitomi 5-5
vs Jacky 5-5
vs Jann 5-5
vs Kasumi 5-5
vs Kokoro 5-5
vs Lei Fang 5-5
vs Leon 6-4
vs Marie 5-5
vs Momiji 5-5
vs Pai 5-5
vs Rachel 5-5
vs Rig 5-5
vs Ryu 5-5
vs Sarah 5-5
vs Tina 5-5
vs Zack 5-5

I'm mixing my sentiment and not here, with the mindset that most match ups are really genuinely even but I've highlighted ones where Helena does feel a little stronger. I also listed the Gen Fu one negatively, even if I feel that it can be played as a 5-5.

These changes affected the current list to the following:
S - Gen Fu
A - Christie, Ayane, Sarah, Kasumi, Leifang, Helena, Pai
B - Hayate, Jann Lee, Akira, Jacky, Momiji, Ryu, Alpha-152, Bass, Bayman, Mila, Hitomi, Lisa, Rig, Marie Rose, Tina, Zack
C - Ein, Brad, Leon, Rachel, Kokoro
D - Eliot