CB isn't any more risky than a launcher.
DOAD was never tested in tournament play. I won't say it's a good or bad system, but there's no reason to remove CB just because you want them to add the DOAD system.
Let me answer or address each of your statements here Bryan.
Ok some people, your self included, have said that CB's don't need to leave if DOAD's system is implemented. All im saying is that it feels unnecessary when you have a system like DOAD's. The more i think of it though, that's fine because if DOAD's system is in DOA5 then you can keep CB's in the game but no one at high level will use them. DOAD's system is just that good in comparison to the CB situations you are stating.
90% of the time you stun someone in DOA, it's going to be CH or better. And the 35F counterhold is still too much, but that's not a fight I'm willing to have at this point.
You are saying that 90% of the stuns you get from DOA are CH or better correct? Thats what makes DOAD's system great. You are rewarded for those hit, throw and hold statuses. Ayane in DOA5 currently has a hold that grants her NOTHING but with DOAD's system,
depending on what hold status she got, she would get an actual attack for free and also get the CH revision on top of the launch height.
Every character can CB in 3 hits or less. Most characters can CB in two hits. A good number of characters can use a sit down stun on the second hit, then CB on the 3rd. In most of the stated situations, the opponent only has one chance to stop the combo. Ideally, they wouldn't have any chance once they're been hit, but again... that's not a fight I'm going to take on at this point.
All characters in
3 moves or less? I clearly remember Hitomi and Hayabusa not being able to do that. What set ups are you using for them and are they as good as everyone else's? probably not. In other words even if those characters could go into CB's in 3 moves or less, the set ups aren't that good when compared to kasumi's and Bayman. Even their setups aren't that great TBH but their better than most. Which means the opponent still has
2 to 3 chances to hold or shake out of the stun or set up. Now you could just CH stun and launch like in DOA4 so they only have
1 chance to hold you and although that works, the launch is minimal and not all characters can take advantage of a low launch. If DOAD's system is in there and you use that 1 chance launch situation then you are rewarded with essentially max launch height which everyone can take advantage of and there was only
1 chance to stop you.
I suggest you learn the CB system better before commenting on it. You seem to lack a complete understanding of how it works.
I don't lack an understanding on how CB's work. You can use the CB move twice to go into the deep stun or stun your opponent several times and use the CB move at the end of the stun threshold to go into the CB animation. Has that changed since the E3 build? What did I miss?
No, no, no, no, no! Doing that turns CBs into the DOA4 stun game. I can't believe you'd even offer this as a possible solution. The rest of your post I can deal with, but this portion just shows me how little you know about what makes a good competitive fighter.
Hold on, you are saying that only having one move for CB is better than have 2 or maybe 3? How does this change the game into DOA4's stun system when these moves are made to avoid that system in the first place? Listen if you want to have only ONE option to go into CB stun that's fine by me just stick DOAD's mechanics in there because CB's
don't have guaranteed set ups. Im trying to give you at least
one other option to go into the CB stun that some of you claim to love so much but yet that idea sounds completely terrible, wow.
I'd rather have frame advantage than a stun. You can't counter out of frame advantage, you can counter out of a stun.
OK but there isn't any move in DOA that gives you that much advantage on hit that keeps you from holding. Which is why i said what i said. only exceptions are currently the sit down stuns which I believe the majority of the cast gets at least one quick follow up and usually that's after a previous initial stun.
You should learn how to properly use frame advantage. You'd rather give people the opportunity to use a counterhold instead of taking your frame advantage. Play a 3D fighter other than DOA and then come back and analyze what you've said here. It sounds ridiculous.
To you it may sound ridiculous but again you are not understanding that there isnt any move in DOA that is relatively fast that causes frame advantage passed 5 frames on hit (that isn't a stun) which means they can still hold anyway. Go read my post again so you can understand better.
I'm deadly serious when I say that I would not play DOA5 if Team Ninja listens to you. What you're asking for is DOA4.2 and that's simply not acceptable. I want DOA5 to have a healthy tournament life, and your vision of DOA5 will result in a repeat of DOA4... at best.
That's a lie because I don't want another DOA4, however just because
I don't agree with you shouldn't automatically mean i want DOA4.2.3.4. Then again several people that don't agree with
you here have told me that they have been labeled as
DOA4 fans or put on ignore
. DOA5 is going to have a healthier tournament life based on the changes already in there and there is
no way it will ever be like DOA4 and that's obviously a good thing.
--
Only 1 stun needs to be achieved. Then the move that causes the CB needs to be done twice in a row once you are stunned (considering that you didn't force a sit-down stun). Then that's murder she wrote. If player lets that happen to them constantly, then so be it. Good players on the other hand, will make their opponent add a lot of finesse to their CB game. This is where the highly fearful mix up game comes into play. Do I go for the guaranteed killer or do I give you a chance to breathe (holding my launcher)?
Why do you want to avoid real guaranteed situations. Can you answer me that?
Let me answer your question real quick and then breakdown the situation you are stating. Im not avoiding guaranteed situations, I'm actually giving them to you on a silver platter but you choose to ignore me or not understand clearly what I'm saying because of your lack of knowledge in DOAD and DOA5.
Only 1 stun needs to be achieved. Then the move that causes the CB needs to be done twice in a row once you are stunned (considering that you didn't force a sit-down stun). Then that's murder she wrote.
Here is the breakdown of your set up. You have your initial
stun like you stated, rather it be through NH, CH or whatnot, and then you have to do the CB move twice correct? So let me get this straight, you stun them once and now they have an opportunity to hold you but lets go ahead and say you are successful with the follow up. Which in this case is the first CB move but now they are stunned again and can of course hold you
again. Of course at this point you try to go for your 2nd CB move because the game is going to give you the CB Stun but the point still remains that you have 2 opportunities to stop the combo in this set up
NOT one like you stated.
This also applies to the sit down stun AP. You can shake out of the sit down stun and block the CB move. If you can shake and block the CB move, guess what that also means? You can shake and hold the CB move still giving you 2 chances to hold/block in THIS particular set up and not all characters have those. This essentially means it may be even harder for them to get CB.
Again in DOAD if you CH or HCH someone and launch then your height is essentially max height where as in DOA4 and currently in DOA5 it forces you to play the stun game to get a better launch. My set up of stunning someone and then launching your opponent really high with a 15frame mid-K,mid-P or High attack for great damage only offers
1 opportunity to get out. Not to mention that my set of moves will be faster than the CB move itself which also makes it harder to read. The beauty of this mechanic is that it also rewards good throw setups and Holding set ups that gave you guaranteed follow ups without losing any damage revision. (This is a similar system DOA2 and DOA3 used BTW and I know a lot of you love those games)
For someone that doesn't want to jump out of a window for one guy talking about something that is definitely good for the game, i find it interesting that you would easily do it for some
one else. Especially since you haven't tested what that person is saying either.
I was with you until about here. He expressed to Team Ninja something to think about, his difference in opinion. He's pushing for something he believes, he shouldn't automatically agree with the others because they're the majority. I'm not saying in THIS example, but one, the majority isn't always correct.
Exactly, and trust me they are taking in thoughts from everyone everywhere including here, DOAW and TKP.
Thank you Team Ninja for checking everywhere!
And because it's coming from his mouth. He knows how to thrive in a random environment (which is pretty much what he was given at E3 with the lack of experience we all had fyi) and this would be beneficial to him personally and very few others. Some people have a gift for that kind of terrible gameplay, most people don't. He said himself that he can't stand seeing the same move twice, that should tell you all you need to know about his priorities when it comes to making a game solid vs random
Its not necessarily that i dont like seeing the same move twice Erik. You misunderstood me. Its more of the fact that you are rewarded for using the
CB move twice (with a Powerblow) and that goes against the core mechanics of DOA.
What's interesting is that Manny didn't post the article here at first. Instead he posted it on TKP and DOAW. No one is discussing it on TKP so he hasn't said anything there. However, it's gotten a handful of responses on DOAW, to which he's responded multiple times.
Here, he has not responded in what... two days? He knows we have way more competitive knowledge than a majority of the people on DOAW, so he's avoiding us. He doesn't want Team Ninja to see that his opinion is not favored by most of the competitive scene. He's sneaky, I'll give him that much.
You find it interesting that I posted on all DOA websites? um.. ok. I responded to DOAW posts because they were simple answers and/or discussions that allowed me to respond with the time i had at the moment (not to mention there was a holiday one of those days and i wasn't home any time after noon but why am I having to explain when or why i post again? You over assume too much and come up with the most random conclusions). I'm posting here now since i actually have more time to answer, but It's nice to know you keep up with everything I do and inform everyone else by saying its sneaky
. I posted it openly to the public, yeah I'm REAL SNEAKY *BIG WINK*.
I should know very soon here whether or not Team Ninja is listening to Manny more so than the rest of us. I won't be able to provide any real details, but hopefully what little I'll actually be able to say will be good news. ^_^
Again Team Ninja doesnt listen to just one person
. They are taking everything in from everyone and deciding what makes sense to the game and franchise. I give my input no different than you do. Obviously they have adjusted the game from some of the major gripes the community has had as a whole, which ALREADY changes the game dramatically (Wall game/bounce, holding Frames, unshakable stuns etc.)
I can't wait to see the final product myself. So many things I want to test out
.
EDIT:
BTW everyone Powerblows give you a wall bounce on stages like Boxing rings or ropes. I will discuss more in my Tag Team Article when i post it up. I just wanted to bring that up since no one has talked about it yet and im sure a lot of you can start thinking of crazy follow ups to the PB's that bounce of the walls (Not every character can do this). Also
good portion of the cast that hits you with down punch is now + frames. sometimes +1 or +2 depending on the character.
MASTER
