I Am The Shadow... The True Self... [General Discussion]

[tokiopewpew]

Though her overall gameplay consists more of defensive poking, footsies and whiff punishment, it depends what kind of defense you are exactly thinking about. She does not excel in any of these things, that means she's neither made for long keepout or spacing games, nor does she have additional defensive parries that help you to get out of trouble more easily and play the turtle style. Her defensive tools aren't different in any way to those of other fighters and her advanced holds are rather made for offensive purposes.

She might be the right choice if you want to improve your overall play, but if you want to train something particular, I would almost say she isn't.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Generally it's to improve my overall play.

 

[indieanimator]

Is there a top 10 moves for this character around here? I enjoyed them for a lot of the rest of the cast in their sections because it helped me narrow down what are the most effective attacks. Thanks!

 

[tokiopewpew]

No top 10 move list up here yet, but making one is actually a good idea. I may post my favorites soon.

 

[Zero Beat]

Favorites as in how cool they are, right? If so, I can whip one up pretty quickly.

10. Tenfu and Chifu, teleport versions. There's just something so satisfying about the "fwoomph" they make, and the moves from them are a key part of her juggles.

9. Rekkuga. A dashing elbow to the face that is actually stronger than Kasumi's and has knockback. And it only leaves you at -4 on block.

8. Kiri-Yozakura. Expert high punch hold. Limited utility, but it's a quick teleport and strick to the back of the neck that lets you get a guaranteed combo.

7. Getsurin-Kyuaku - Chifu. Backflip and a teleport dash. Same as Kasumi's.

6. Mai-Ogi. Her highest strike launcher. So simple, yet it sets up her most reliable damage-dealer.

5. Kikka-Sen - Chifu. Medium launcher. Key part of juggles after Mai Ogi. She can follow up with any Chifu attack or hold cancel to do a combo.

4. Oboro Zukiyo. She's a Kasumi clone, so of course an Oboro makes the list. I just like that they brought it back in some form after DoA4.

3. Shinden-Raku. Also known as Flower Garland Drop. She grabs an arm and leg, places her feet at the base of the spine, crouches down and spins, simultaneoulsy lands and pulls up on the opponent's arm and leg to break their back before teleporting back to a relatively safe distance. Always does 35 damage except on Lab, where it does 42.

2. Cliffhanger throw. Starts out like Kasumi's and Alpha's, then transitions to Heavenly Waterfall from NG3RE, even with the sideways flip at the end. Also, if you have very sharp vision or slow down a recording, you'll see that she does one final stomp with both feet shortly before impact with the ground. If this were Ninja Gaiden, she'd pop heads with this.

1. Tsukuyomi. Powerblows are designed to be cool. This one is my favorite by a hair over Ryu's because of the teleports, the quick dash to the side before she teleports in front of the opponent that is to fast to be seen, and how she comes out of the teleport in front of the opponent already in the middle of a kick. As for the kicks themselves, I don't think even Chun Li can kick that fast, and if someone pulls it off in real life, that'd be one of the most impressive things ever.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Favorites as in how cool they are, right? If so, I can whip one up pretty quickly.

I don't think he meant in terms of how cool they are.

However, I've created an separate thread for it, so you guys can go for discussions there:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/phase-4s-top-10-move-list.4826/

 

[Zero Beat]

I'm going to be using that list for a while. Now I need to train myself to do tick throws.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Now you all know

 

[Chapstick]

I wonder how much of the roster is cheap to this person. So far we have Phase 4, Jann Lee, and Kasumi. Do you remember who they used?

 

[Zero Beat]

Guy says, "She's too fast for me." Corrects it to "to." It was right the first time.

EDIT: Might have been correcting "ro" two lines up.

 

[synce]

lmao Phase 4 cheap... now I've heard it all. When I see someone pick P4 I go yay an automatic win. I think TN designed her to be weak so she has something else in common with Alpha

 

[tokiopewpew]

I wonder how much of the roster is cheap to this person. So far we have Phase 4, Jann Lee, and Kasumi. Do you remember who they used?

The guy who said she's op played Kokoro, Bayman, Sarah and Leon.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

lmao Phase 4 cheap... now I've heard it all. When I see someone pick P4 I go yay an automatic win. I think TN designed her to be weak so she has something else in common with Alpha

Weak? In what way? And yeah, I'm the same damn way until the tele-juggling shit! FFS! But yeah, just like Kasumi, she has to needlessly over-extend herself to get damage; yet, this game is centered around being a combo-whore, so I don't see much of a problem! I also don't see how she is common to Alpha because of this. Alas, the "Cheaper than Kasumi" part is correct because she's shit on block, but P+K shit all day once in! SMH! I mean, damn! I played Kasumis that did nothing but every oboro you can think of! Is it just me or do new characters end up getting more gimmicky? (Alpha was once new, but she is beyond established)

No, I think they designed her to eventually fail since they'll get to the point that there's only one Kasumi (obviously). If Alpha's ridiculous gusto couldn't/didn't do it ...

 

[Chapstick]

Weak? In what way? And yeah, I'm the same damn way until the tele-juggling shit! FFS! But yeah, just like Kasumi, she has to needlessly over-extend herself to get damage; yet, this game is centered around being a combo-whore, so I don't see much of a problem! I also don't see how she is common to Alpha because of this. Alas, the "Cheaper than Kasumi" part is correct because she's shit on block, but P+K shit all day once in! SMH! I mean, damn! I played Kasumis that did nothing but every oboro you can think of! Is it just me or do new characters end up getting more gimmicky? (Alpha was once new, but she is beyond established)

No, I think they designed her to eventually fail since they'll get to the point that there's only one Kasumi (obviously). If Alpha's ridiculous gusto couldn't/didn't do it ...

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.

Phase is weak in that she doesn't have good ways to open opponents up and can get throw punished for breathing. She has to work for that 'P+K shit' so I don't see how it's cheap

 

[tokiopewpew]

No, I think they designed her to eventually fail since they'll get to the point that there's only one Kasumi (obviously).

Every fighting game has it's high tier and low tier characters, and in DOA5U, Phase is simply one of the latter. Though that does not mean she was just designed to fail. She was added to kind of satisfy former Kasumi Alpha fans and TN surely had a clear idea how she should look like in terms of tools and gameplay, considering that with Alpha-152, there was already a clone of Kasumi. And in the end, you can say they did a very good job with making the playstyles of these three characters unique. People should just stop trying to compare apples and oranges.

Alas, the "Cheaper than Kasumi" part is correct because she's shit on block, but P+K shit all day once in! SMH! I mean, damn! I played Kasumis that did nothing but every oboro you can think of! Is it just me or do new characters end up getting more gimmicky?

Tell me in which way both Kasumi and Phase 4 are cheap. If you get oboro'd all day and you call that cheap, it's nothing more as saying you haven't figured out how to deal with it yet and like to to dig in the salt mine instead. Phase 4 is gimmicky indeed, but every character can be so too.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Every fighting game has it's high tier and low tier characters, and in DOA5U, Phase is simply one of the latter. Though that does not mean she was just designed to fail. She was added to kind of satisfy former Kasumi Alpha fans and TN surely had a clear idea how she should look like in terms of tools and gameplay, considering that with Alpha-152, there was already a clone of Kasumi. And in the end, you can say they did a very good job with making the playstyles of these three characters unique. People should just stop trying to compare apples and oranges.



Tell me in which way both Kasumi and Phase 4 are cheap. If you get oboro'd all day and you call that cheap, it's nothing more as saying you haven't figured out how to deal with it yet and like to to dig in the salt mine instead. Phase 4 is gimmicky indeed, but every character can be so too.

I don't really think they are, I'm proving a point! How exactly is alpha cheap? (I hear that alot) I tell people what you told me, but they still call her cheap!

On the playstyle issue: Where/What is the difference? Cause I see these three in people's faces all day long! Wasn't this a discussion regarding this? Maybe this was the point to making it difficult for Phase 4 to open people up - mind you, it can still be just as difficult for Alpha and Kasumi, but too many don't think this is possible due to combo-fucking being so easy to do! So, naturally, people think they should do the same with Phase 4, just because! This is where they are wrong! It's also why she's shit on block! How many actually see this? (This goes beyond how unsafe she is) Why not do something to make her safe or viable so she can open people up.

As with every character, if the defender is aggravating, gee, idk throw, bait shit, space - tick throw - just don't throw ticks! But no, play like Kasumi, striking all day, combo-ing all day! Alpha is the same damn way! They may have been made with uniqueness in mind, but three characters across a shit-ton of players ("I found this combo! Copy it!"). it's hard to tell a difference! I'm nowhere near Xblades (nor do I have the desire to be), but people can tell that there is a clear difference between mine and his! I must have some validity, here!

 

[tokiopewpew]

Actually, I don't want to discuss any further.

 

[Yurlungur]

I'm proving a point! How exactly is alpha cheap?

• 120 damage throw on high counter which the damage for that is INSANE
• offensive holds that can beat wake up kicks, if somehow whiffs and alpha is in bt she's allowed to do an 8 frame mid guard break that leaves her at positive
• r.u.s.h beats all long range attempts to the point where people need to bait the move
• 9 frame jab into really nasty mix ups + stun such as pkkkkk7k/k or 2k or her p string leads her to a guard break which is actually safe
• stupidly easy combos which do a shit load of damage, kkkkkkk into 66p,k into kkkkk7k
• Going back to offensive holds one option you have to hit her high out of the other you need to hit her low since pressing throw against the middle of the screen is stupid
• god knows what else
• Dives in neutral while if you do them correctly destroy most stances
• actual mix up game such as 2kkk or 2kk2k (this is a low, this opens people up along with 2h+k)

On the playstyle issue: Where/What is the difference? Cause I see these three in people's faces all day long! Wasn't this a discussion regarding this? Maybe this was the point to making it difficult for Phase 4 to open people up - mind you, it can still be just as difficult for Alpha and Kasumi, but too many don't think this is possible due to combo-fucking being so easy to do! So, naturally, people think they should do the same with Phase 4, just because! This is where they are wrong! It's also why she's shit on block! How many actually see this? (This goes beyond how unsafe she is) Why not do something to make her safe or viable so she can open people up.

I don't really think you understand how phase works, phase once she gets started has the SCARIEST mix up game in doa. Everything after the point of a teleport becomes a hard read, if she simply could open people up at any minute she'd break the game.

it's extremely hard to balance a character like her since one of her combos after the huge execution barrier is extremely damaging even on heavy weights. If they make her safe she can just randomly throw out moves and fish for counter pokes all day and become extremely brain dead. So how would you balance her out?

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

• 120 damage throw on high counter which the damage for that is INSANE
• offensive holds that can beat wake up kicks, if somehow whiffs and alpha is in bt she's allowed to do an 8 frame mid guard break that leaves her at positive
• r.u.s.h beats all long range attempts to the point where people need to bait the move
• 9 frame jab into really nasty mix ups + stun such as pkkkkk7k/k or 2k or her p string leads her to a guard break which is actually safe
• stupidly easy combos which do a shit load of damage, kkkkkkk into 66p,k into kkkkk7k
• Going back to offensive holds one option you have to hit her high out of the other you need to hit her low since pressing throw against the middle of the screen is stupid
• god knows what else
• Dives in neutral while if you do them correctly destroy most stances
• actual mix up game such as 2kkk or 2kk2k (this is a low, this opens people up along with 2h+k)

I don't really think you understand how phase works, phase once she gets started has the SCARIEST mix up game in doa. Everything after the point of a teleport becomes a hard read, if she simply could open people up at any minute she'd break the game.

it's extremely hard to balance a character like her since one of her combos after the huge execution barrier is extremely damaging even on heavy weights. If they make her safe she can just randomly throw out moves and fish for counter pokes all day and become extremely brain dead. So how would you balance her out?

So, let me get this straight: All of this makes her cheap, but you have strikers with half-crazy mixup games which they utilize calling it "pressure." The throws! Seriously, BURST, if you are that fucking stupid to hold, you deserve it! RUSH! That's not fair, considering Nyo-Tengu, and Ryu can also do this (play full screen! Nyo could dance up and windstorm all damn day!) Again, you're thinking I'm saying spam this, but if opponents are going to spam holds, why the hell not? What does this say about the other grapplers? (Bass, Tina, Lisa appropriately have run throws and you get stupid damage on HiC with them) Come on now!

Damage output - really? As easily as everybody can combo-fuck Alpha - I'm drawing a blank! Doesn't this "balance" things! "I can do a 30-hit combo, to equal one and a half of Alpha's HiC throws. It's awesome juggling the shit out of her!" That to me, is asinine and as unnecessary as you say about the shit Alpha has! Correct me if I am wrong?

Phase 4 is hard to balance? Where have I heard this before? Oh, right! Alpha! However, it'd be interesting to see what his word of the day is for her as its "Unbalanced!" regarding Alpha!

But back to Phase 4: as I said earlier, there is nothing unique with these three characters if they are being played like everybody else! "Rush all damn day! (no pun-intended) Space when I'm about to lose!" That's the crap I'm talking about! Scared of RUSH, get your ass out of range! Scared of BURST, get your ass out of range! Scared of their poking game? Get the fuck out of range!! Same can be said for the run-throws/strikes with the other grapplers!

All I'm saying is: play smart as there was a reason she (Phase 4) is very unsafe (as are Alpha & Kasumi). It's odd, I keep hearing how Alpha excels in space as if she's the only one who does! The other two could, too (I bet if they had Alpha stuff, it would happen). It was said: Just because so-and-so sucks in space doesn't mean you shouldn't learn how to utilize it and we all agree, Phase 4 sucks when guarded up close!

But I would love to know and understand the intricacies of Phase 4 since she is a much "harder" character to play than Alpha! (I guess this puts Kasumi in the middle)

 

[Chapstick]

The only people I see that don't think Alpha can be BS are Alpha players. Weird.