Was gonna like this post...
...then realized I shouldn't.
Play Nyotengu or Rachel.Because I loved having a heavy hitting female that could plow through you like a freight train
When do you think DOA6 will be released and what do you want to see in it
- Thread starter ItasumiJinsei
- Start date
Argentus
Well-Known Member
Tried. Don't like em. Too awkward and unwieldy. Want my tank girl back.
Kronin
Well-Known Member
With the exception that I see Leon very far from being a copy paste of Bayman (to be fair Ein is much more close to Hitomi) even if there are still improvements that can be done, I agree with the rest. However I think that DoA5 has already various nice casual details even if they can appear overlooked: the people roaring when characters get an hit or hit dangerzone, the sounds/voices echo inside "flow", the clean stages that don't allow to become dirty, the taunts that clean your character, Bass' taunt changing when fighting Tina (however this happened even in the previous games), the different bottles and "fans" used from Brad and Nyo according to their costumes, Bayman's hidden bleeding wound behind his white shirt or Honoka's rock scissor paper mini game. I'm sure that could be others that I overlooked, but what I meant is that an attention for little details almost invisible is still in the series, even if maybe minor compared to the past.
xD
SoftCabbage
Well-Known Member
I expect to be in 2016+ and I want to see DOA6+, DOA6 Ultimate, DOA6 Arcade, DOA6 Last Round.
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
Lulu
Well-Known Member
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
Still, that's never going to happen. Just learn to adapt to the mechanics. If they follow your suggestion, the game will be way less competitive than it is now.It clashes with the other aspects of the game.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
A common saying that always never seems to have an explaination....
The problem with those guaranteed stuns and guaranteed escapes is theres nothing competitive about them in the first place... they reduce options and lock people out of interacting with the game.... which is essentially whats wrong with Virtua Fighter, Tekken and Soul Calibur: its only competitive in the neutral game when both playera still have some form of meaningfull autonomy and options they can use to mount an offense.... it then immediately goes from competing against the opponent to competing against the system as soon as someone gets stunned or launched.... locking one player completely out of options while the opponent does their combo on Autopilot because honestly "what can he do to stop me"...... the answer is nothing.... from a defensive stand point this will be things like Mortal Combat/Injustices and BlazBlue's Bursts and Breakers. Thats not very competitive...... or maybe it is.... maybe competition is exactly that, and thats kinda stupid.
I know it will never change.... but thats still what I want and I have a very good reason for wanting it.
Hey thats not the only thing that will never happen.... another example is world peace (thats right you heard me... I said world peace).... should we give up all our good will and join the scum of the earth ?
Aven Kujo-Gin
Well-Known Member
I know, he is very different, but they share the same animations for hold and tag throws, and it annoys me.
WAZAAAAA
Well-Known Member
inb4 Zero Suit Samus
Agreed with the removal of Stagger Escape, it promotes button mashing and I hate those kinds of mechanics in fighting games. It also seems to happen "accidentally", like, if the opponent just happens to press buttons during a stun and manages to escape the followup, even though he had no intention to SE.
Even to this day the mechanic is pretty obscure, what's the exact formula to calculate how much of the stun can be reduced? For what kinds of stuns? Which inputs exactly make you SE? How many inputs and how fast do you need to press them to SE?
And let's say you stagger escape at full speed and the opponent still hits you. lmao at the wasted effort. Mashing is also perfectly cheated by autofire/turbo capable controllers.
Stupid mashing mechanics lol.
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I don't think that would be a good idea. I can already picture how broken that would be in DOA's tag mode *shrugs*
Aven Kujo-Gin
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but I guess the only problem will be in stages with special effects like hot zone or home. But it will be okay in lorelei or forest for example.
They can also remove those effects, like how in sakura the brekable objects are only in 1vs1 but not in tag.
Forest would be fine, but stages with cliffs (ex: Lost World, Ends of the Earth, etc) and special dangerzones (ex: Hotzone, Home, etc) probably shouldn't be included.
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
It's not mashing. Just holding H while spinning circles. That's not mashing whatsoever.
There doesn't seem to be such a formula unfortunately. The maximum amount of frame advantage can only be determined by setting the CPU to fastest SE.
That's why people come up with anti-slow escape setups... slow escaping doesn't always make you invulnerable to the next strike. Agreed about the turbo controller part though.
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In general, I don't see how people want to have Slow Escaping removed in DOA6. It's just taking out a defensive mechanic out of the game just because people can't adapt to it. It's been there since at least DOA4 (can't remember if it's been there in earlier DOA's). In fact, slow escaping deems some setups not guaranteed which would be guaranteed if the opponent did not slow escape. Without slow escaping, DOA would be pretty broken imo.
Aven Kujo-Gin
Well-Known Member
I would understand if they never include stages with cliffs but even if they do, I don't think that would be broken. The damage for falling is not that high. However, in order to add such stages, they first have to fix the damage scaling and the gravity, because now tag is such a mess.
If "locking the player out" is a problem, we should ask to get rid of throws, holds, bounds and launches/juggles as well.
Actually, it's kinda dumb that I'm locked out from playing when I'm knocked off a cliff. I should be able to hit buttons and fly, rather than being forced to fall all the way to the ground on the next level. That's not very "competitive." And what's with being locked out from playing after you've been killed? You just have to sit there while your character feints.
This game is just so casual with all of its guaranteed nonsense. If only it would change and become competitive!
Actually, it's kinda dumb that I'm locked out from playing when I'm knocked off a cliff. I should be able to hit buttons and fly, rather than being forced to fall all the way to the ground on the next level. That's not very "competitive." And what's with being locked out from playing after you've been killed? You just have to sit there while your character feints.
This game is just so casual with all of its guaranteed nonsense. If only it would change and become competitive!
Lulu
Well-Known Member
Exactly.... generally I wasn't going bring up the input for the stagger escaping because I wanted to keep those things seperate but yeah... both the mechanic and the input for it is stupid.
Thats kind of a moot point..... what he's trying to say is its messy and random and very very unintuitive and impractical..... ofcourse his issue is with the input for it, mine is with the entire concept of it.
Thats why I want both the Stagger Escaping and the corresponding Stuns it was designed for gone..... there problem solved. Or they can just make the character triggered Sit Down Stun Hold able....
I believe I said only the character triggered unholdable stuns should be removed.... didn't say anything about the one's triggered by the environment.... I was very carefull abouf that part specifically.
And hey they don't need to be removed, they can just be modified to allow more mind games exactly like they with the Cliffhangers. However this isn't necessary for bounds and juggles because the Critical Level mechanic keeps that in check and has its roots inbedded into playing the stun game, but if they can extend the mind games to bounces and juggles then hell I'm all for it.
The throws are trickier, if you make them breakable then that devalues the importance of stun games and lowers the risk of holding since they can break whatever throw they fall into, this is even more vital in the punish and neutral game because those are the most difficult times to land a throw because of the throw's direct counter, the strike, makes it much much riskier to pull off , its not something you have to worry about in the stun game.... it wouldn't be fair to make those throws breakable at the parts of the game where Throws are the most riskiest.
You overdid it with this part....
Let me give you an example using Football (the real football not the American one) near as I can tell there are no guarantees in this sport, everything can be defended against including Free Kicks, Corner Kicks and Penalties..... in these scenarios the opposing team is given and advantage to score.... they don't completely lock the team out of a chance at defending themselves even if someone commits a foul.
I'd give other examples but Football is the only sport I'm most familiar with.... hell you should check out the football games.... No Guarantees. Theres plenty of advantages and local imbalances (Local Imbalances are good) but nothing is guaranteed or completely removes the other teams ability to defend against something...... it wouldn't be as exciting a sport to watch if every free kick and penalty was not allow to be defended against by the opposing team..... kinda like The NBA's Free Throws.... in that scenario its not one team vs. Another... its one team vs. The hoop, he is competing against something thats got nothing to do with the competitive nature of the sport. Thats kinda like what those Sit Down Stuns and Stagger Escapes are methods people use to bypass the mind game..... the very thing DoA does better than any other Fighting Game.
The guaranteed holds you're talking about typically last less than one-third of a second, which is far less time than it takes to roll off the ground or sit through a throw/hold animation. If you are bothered by the fact that you can't hit a button for less than one third of a second, there are far more potent obstacles for you that are presented in any game (DOA included) than the stuns you find so objectionable.
And as far as the "competitive" element goes, same thing I've told Argentus: It's about balancing damage packets. Functionally, there's no difference between a juggle that lasts 4 seconds and nets 80 damage than a throw that lasts 4 seconds and nets 80 damage. If you find one more aesthetically favorable, that's fine. But, you can't really argue gameplay-wise that one adds or subtracts from the competitive viability of the game when the other does the same thing. So if these stuns were affecting the competitive nature of the game, the solution would involve fixing all of the functionally similar damage packets, which would get rid of throw/hold animations as well as the environment ones (because the same principle applies to a juggle for X damage vs a wall hit for the same damage).
Regarding throws, the way to avoid being thrown is not altogether different from how you avoid being put into a "guaranteed stun." Both require a premeditated choice (hopefully, unless you just mash and hit buttons entirely at random, but in that case you are in no position to talk about competitive elements of the game at all) that leaves you vulnerable to certain high-damage options that last a certain amount of time while making you immune to others . Neither values or devalues the stun game more or less than the other. If strikes couldn't guarantee similar damage to throws, they would be favored far less and it would tip the stun game you seem to praise into an unbalanced territory where everyone is afraid to attack and afraid to hold.
And as far as the "competitive" element goes, same thing I've told Argentus: It's about balancing damage packets. Functionally, there's no difference between a juggle that lasts 4 seconds and nets 80 damage than a throw that lasts 4 seconds and nets 80 damage. If you find one more aesthetically favorable, that's fine. But, you can't really argue gameplay-wise that one adds or subtracts from the competitive viability of the game when the other does the same thing. So if these stuns were affecting the competitive nature of the game, the solution would involve fixing all of the functionally similar damage packets, which would get rid of throw/hold animations as well as the environment ones (because the same principle applies to a juggle for X damage vs a wall hit for the same damage).
Regarding throws, the way to avoid being thrown is not altogether different from how you avoid being put into a "guaranteed stun." Both require a premeditated choice (hopefully, unless you just mash and hit buttons entirely at random, but in that case you are in no position to talk about competitive elements of the game at all) that leaves you vulnerable to certain high-damage options that last a certain amount of time while making you immune to others . Neither values or devalues the stun game more or less than the other. If strikes couldn't guarantee similar damage to throws, they would be favored far less and it would tip the stun game you seem to praise into an unbalanced territory where everyone is afraid to attack and afraid to hold.
Tempest
Well-Known Member
Literally the only problem with stagger escaping is that sometimes it'll make you crouch if you keep doing the input after you've already left stun, and that's still preventable. If the mechanics are giving you trouble you should ask around and see what advice other players can give you instead of complaining about them.