Team Ninja wants ideas for next patch!

[DR2K]

I want you to think about that statement for a minute (no hate intended) " To achieve a solid balance you have to nerf top tier and buff bottom " Done? ok... now provide me a good example of a game that glorifies that statement? In fighting games, you have top tier day 1 then patches come out, there's new tier list, new top tier, nerf,new tier list, top tier, and it repeats itself over and over like your washing you clothes. Patches never fix games... it only hurts them in the long run......

Street Fighter does it with revisions(instead of patches). Top tier is almost always nerfed, while bottom/mid are buffed. Until a new top tier arises, then the cycle continues.

A patch has never hurt a game in the long run for any fighter, ever. (except for Sfxtk where it caused freezing)Nice hyberbole though.

 

[Prince Adon]

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Which is why i said he would still be good, no need to use hostile words. And yeah his dragon gunner was an OH, but OH's are not a universal tool now. All other non grapplers lost there OH. From what it seems, OH are a grapplers tool. But thats been said many times, and you dont think its a good reason so this isnt really going anywhere. And i dont have to play a character to know how good they are. Knowledge of what makes a character good is enough.​

I'm not really being hostile. I'm not upset or anything if that's what you mean. I have nothing against you at all. I'm just making a point. And when I say his dragon gunner always been a OH I mean since DOA2(Not 4 since you said universal I'm guessing that's what you meant). It's just the term offensive holds wasn't used until DOA4.

Ok let me explain why the "only non grapplers should have an OH" is a stupid argument. For one there is nothing in the rule book that says so. You just assume that since majority of the ones who do have an OH are grapplers. Doesn't mean they're not allowed to give them to none grapplers if they feel it's neccessary.

Another thing. Lei Fang has OH and 6 frame throw, right? So why no complaining that she has that? She is not a grappler. Giving her a 6 frame throw and OH doesn't make her a grappler. If Kasumi had a 6 frame throw would she be a grappler? I doubt it. If you add more frames to Bass 6 frame throws, and make his OH regular throws, would that make him a non grappler? No. That would just make him a garbage grappler. This is why this argument is invalid. When you're asking to "nerf" a character no one want to hear your opinion on it. You better have some facts behind your argument because nerfing a game is a big deal.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Completely false. Knowing a character's positives w/o his negatives leaves you to believe the character is truly " OP ". Without knowing the negatives or not playing the character yourself, No one can take you seriously.

Well i never said i dont know his negatives. And to me you dont need to play a character to know their pros and cons but thats my opinion.

I'm not really being hostile. I'm not upset or anything if that's what you mean. I have nothing against you at all. I'm just making a point. And when I say his dragon gunner always been a OH I mean since DOA2(Not 4 since you said universal I'm guessing that's what you meant). It's just the term offensive holds wasn't used until DOA4.

Ok let me explain why the "only non grapplers should have an OH" is a stupid argument. For one there is nothing in the rule book that says so. You just assume that since majority of the ones who do have an OH are grapplers. Doesn't mean they're not allowed to give them to none grapplers if they feel it's neccessary.

Another thing. Lei Fang has OH and 6 frame throw, right? So why no complaining that she has that? She is not a grappler. Giving her a 6 frame throw and OH doesn't make her a grappler. If Kasumi had a 6 frame throw would she be a grappler? I doubt it. If you add more frames to Bass 6 frame throws, and make his OH regular throws, would that make him a non grappler? No. That would just make him a garbage grappler. This is why this argument is invalid. When you're asking to "nerf" a character no one want to hear your opinion on it. You better have some facts behind your argument because nerfing a game is a big deal.

Well i thought being a grappler is by your speed not damage.

 

[DR2K]

You better have some facts behind your argument because nerfing a game is a big deal.

You were given reasons, you just chose to ignore them. "Well this character is not that good. . . I can win!! Problem solved!"

Grapplers should be the only characters because they have disadvanatges that Jann Lee does not have. This is why no one has ever complained about them having OHs. Leifang is a grappler, no matter how you split it, she's an incredibly balanced and well rounded character as well.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

You were given reasons, you just chose to ignore them. "Well this character is not that good. . . I can win!! Problem solved!"

Grapplers should be the only characters because they have disadvanatges that Jann Lee does not have. This is why no one has ever complained about them having OHs. Leifang is a grappler, no matter how you split it, she's an incredibly balanced and well rounded character as well.

Exactly what we have been saying but it seems everyone is stuck on their reasons and arent open to what we're saying.

 

[Nereus]

Mo

Street Fighter does it with revisions(instead of patches). Top tier is almost always nerfed, while bottom/mid are buffed. Until a new top tier arises, then the cycle continues.

A patch has never hurt a game in the long run for any fighter, ever. (except for Sfxtk where it caused freezing)Nice hyberbole though.

Mortal Kombat (Cyrax).... and it is also a perfect example. When people find broken/OP things or tactics, it gets patched and they just find more stupid exploits. like for example the fact that i can force tech by using 1 and 2 w/ jann lee now. I found the 1p on my own but the 2p force tech i learned from tokido.

 

[Prince Adon]

Street Fighter does it with revisions(instead of patches). Top tier is almost always nerfed, while bottom/mid are buffed. Until a new top tier arises, then the cycle continues.

A patch has never hurt a game in the long run for any fighter, ever. (except for Sfxtk where it caused freezing)Nice hyberbole though.

Uhh. You heard about the issues with MK9 patchs? There are plenty of fighters that are screwed up because of this. Hell. Even tekken still have balance issues. Even SF are having issues because of this.

Mo

Mortal Kombat (Cyrax).... and it is also a perfect example. When people find broken/OP things or tactics, it gets patched and they just find more stupid exploits. like for example the fact that i can force tech by using 1 and 2w/ jann lee now. I found the 1p on my own but the 2p force tech i learned from tokido.

Yeah. I saw Ryujin use force techs. Drive me nuts. I must learn those!

 

[Doug Nguyen]

But regardless of those examples. Taking away his dragon gunner wont screw up Jann. And there is no exploits to taking an OH away from him. There's no way Jann lee could create another OH.

 

[DR2K]

Tekken and SF don't have balance issues because of patches, you're literally making things up, most of their patches are glitch fixes as well. Go play SFIV vanilla and AE2012 and tell me which one is the better balance wise.

 

[Nereus]

But regardless of those examples. Taking away his dragon gunner doesnt make Jann lee a horrible character.

But the point is that it removes his "trademark" move..... if it was in DOA1 it probably won't be going anywhere.... and if they wanted to change the d-gunner they would've when they were balance testing most likely

 

[Nereus]

Tekken and SF don't have balance issues because of patches, you're literally making things up, most of their patches are glitch fixes as well. Go play SFIV vanilla and AE2012 and tell me which one is the better balance wise.

yea after god knows how many patches SF4 had.... it still has problems.... im pretty sure Cammy will probably be getting nerfed again lol

 

[Doug Nguyen]

But the point is that it removes his "trademark" move..... if it was in DOA1 it probably won't be going anywhere.... and if they wanted to change the d-gunner they would've when they were balance testing most likely

Having a balance test doesnt really mean the game isnt in need of patches. And i consider his trade mark that running unblockable kick but thats not really important, just a though.

 

[Prince Adon]

Tekken and SF don't have balance issues because of patches, you're literally making things up, most of their patches are glitch fixes as well. Go play SFIV vanilla and AE2012 and tell me which one is the better balance wise.

Uhhh. I didn't say SSF4 wasn't better balance than Vanilla. I own SSF4 arcade edition. I had SSF4, and I had SF4. Pretty much any fighting game you name I had besides SCV(I hate SC) and TTT2(I'll get it eventually). I play them all. I'm saying it still have balance issues. Heck even after AE they were talking about "fixing" the twins(not sure if they did or not) so what does that tell you? Oh, lets not forget about that tekken 6 tournament where everyone were picking Bob.

 

[DR2K]

yea after god knows how many patches SF4 had.... it still has problems.... im pretty sure Cammy will probably be getting nerfed again lol

Cool go play against Vanilla Sagat and tell me how useless balance patches are.

 

[DR2K]

Uhhh. I didn't say SSF4 wasn't better balance than Vanilla. I own SSF4 arcade edition. I had SSF4, and I had SF4. Pretty much any fighting game you name I had besides SCV(I hate SC) and TTT2(I'll get it eventually). I play them all. I'm saying it still have balance issues. Heck even after AE they were talking about "fixing" the twins(not sure if they did or not) so what does that tell you? Oh, lets not forget about that tekken 6 tournament where everyone were picking Bob.

You can't achieve perfect balance, but you can improve it. You start by cutting down dumb tools and buffing useless ones.

 

[Nereus]

Cool go play against Vanilla Sagat and tell me how useless balance patches are.

Go play against Cyrax in MK and tell me how "useful" patches are when someone lands a 70% combo on you

 

[Prince Adon]

You can't achieve perfect balance, but you can improve it. You start by cutting down dumb tools and buffing useless ones.

You don't cut down anything. You wait a few months for majors and offline competitions to start so high level players will know for sure what needs to be buff. That way you don't end up buffing someone who don't needs it. It's never good to "nerf" a character. If your character isn't good at fighting Jann Lee for example buff the tools so they can have them to be able to. Never nerf unless the character is broken.

If in the future Lisa needs to be buff for certain things I would ask for is her BT throw to be an OH. I would also ask them to speed up the frames in carrera, and some other moves, or at least make them more tracking. But right now I have no interest yelling out buffs til then.

 

[d3v]

Cool go play against Vanilla Sagat and tell me how useless balance patches are.

Vanilla Sagat isn't even the strongest character in that game (Seth, Viper and Akuma are).

Speaking of balance issues thanks to patches. There are multiple cases of patches screwing things up. 3rd Strike rev. 990608 took out "broken" things like Urien's unblockables, stuff that he actually needed to compete against the top tier. As a result, the SF community rejected it and stuck with rev. 990512. Also, vanilla MvC3, Sentinel was nerfed early on. Sentinel, a character who ended up being mid-tier at best got nerfed for no reason simply because the scrubs complained.

 

[Nereus]

Im off to bed.. but before i go... i think ill need a ice cold cup of WAATAHH!!!

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Im off to bed.. but before i go... i think ill need a ice cold cup of WAATAHH!!!

Jann is always thirsty.
Ayane is from the market.
Gen fu wants his dick sucked.