Yes or No to Patch?

[DrDogg]

They buffed Helena, come back to the Bokuho side. Drop the red headed step child.

Her 66P line of attacks is restored... but it's too little, too late. No thanks.

Maybe if they returned her BKO to DOA4 status, or actually gave her safe transitions into BT or BKO as I suggested before the game released, then maybe. As it stands, she's DOA4 Helena with limp.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Her 66P line of attacks is restored... but it's too little, too late. No thanks.

Maybe if they returned her BKO to DOA4 status, or actually gave her safe transitions into BT or BKO as I suggested before the game released, then maybe. As it stands, she's DOA4 Helena with limp.

I'm glad with what they did already.
They will never give her a move like Ayane/Lisa's 8P, they want her to rely even more on her BKO. That's her invididuality I guess.
But I agree, they have to buff her BKO transitions a bit. She needs more flexibility in it. I still feel nervous and at risk using it. Also, I've always wanted a BKO low throw or a BKO parry. That BKO CB was a good thing actually.

Who have they been listening to while working on the patch...

 

[DrDogg]

Who have they been listening to while working on the patch...

They try to listen to everyone... which is great, but also a huge problem.

Instead of say... listening to the Americans and leaving CB how it was at E3, or listening to the Japanese and removing CB completely, they try to find a happy median by nerfing CB to where it was at launch. So you got a CB that was unimportant to American players, yet still displeasing Japanese players. Both sides lose.

Now I do think something is interesting. Mochi-A is one of their testers. He plays Hayabusa and won the Japanese tournament with Sarah. Oddly enough, both of those characters got sizable buffs.

 

[Kronin]

They try to listen to everyone... which is great, but also a huge problem.

Instead of say... listening to the Americans and leaving CB how it was at E3, or listening to the Japanese and removing CB completely, they try to find a happy median by nerfing CB to where it was at launch. So you got a CB that was unimportant to American players, yet still displeasing Japanese players. Both sides lose.

Yes, but the other side of the coin is that both win... I know that can be a problem, but when the audience of your game has different general priorities or thoughts about the game, I don't think that there are many alternatives for this.

 

[shunwong]

They should do what they did with 3: one version for América, one for Japan and one for europe

 

[DR2K]

Yes, but the other side of the coin is that both win... I know that can be a problem, but when the audience of your game has different general priorities or thoughts about the game, I don't think that there are many alternatives for this.

Eh if you want to play guess or alive, you still can in this build.

 

[Kronin]

Eh if you want to play guess or alive, you still can in this build.

I was just saying that if effectively the Eastern side of the community is oriented toward aspects opposite for the Western, indipendentely from what they are, Team Ninja can't do nothing in this regard if not trying to appeal both of them. And in the process necessarily to find an halfway.

An eventual complain from them about a "guarantee or alive" game wouldn't be more or less valid than the contrary from the American/European players.

 

[DR2K]

I was just saying that if effectively the Eastern side of the community is oriented toward aspects opposite for the Western, indipendentely from what they are, Team Ninja can't do nothing in this regard if not trying to appeal both of them. And in the process necessarily to find an halfway.

An eventual complain from them about a "guarantee or alive" game wouldn't be more or less valid than the contrary from the American/European players.

As I said both aspects are still in this version. This is a great compromise for both.

 

[SilverKhaos]

1. Loops are what made you fear Mila. It's why I would still think I'm in the fight even if I'm really low on health. Without them, I have to just hope the opponent guesses wrong and I magically avoid a counter. I will not play DOA4 again, and that's exactly what Mila is post-patch: stun and hope for the best.

2. You could react to SS tackle before. I could even do it online. There was no reason to slow it down unless Team Ninja felt it was too good after the SS buff. If that's the reason (and the ONLY reason), then I'd rather have the old SS and tackle. I could actually use the old SS. This new one is useless to me given Mila's nerfs.

3. This is a game with a 0-frame counter and the ability to free-cancel at almost any point in time. I can time my sidestep perfectly, but if the opponent free-cancels, that SS attack is unlikely to hit. With safe SS P, at least it wasn't a big risk. Now that it's unsafe, it becomes a risk. My only safe SS option is a high, and that's almost riskier than going for an unsafe attack in this game. You can sneeze and crush a high attack.

4. She's not hard to read, just block. She can't open you up.

5. When she flies around the arena it's a free juggle for the opponent. Those insane combos are relatively easy to block. The only one that wasn't has now been nerfed. She is a playable boss, but was not top tier by any means. Now she's a one trick pony with that throw and nothing else.

6. I examined Mila for the last four months (longer than that if you count guide work). I know what she has and doesn't have. She's no longer competitive. Could I play with new Mila? Sure. Could I even win with new Mila? Against average players, probably. Can I compete with good players using new Mila? Not a chance, unless I stop using proper strategy and just start crossing my fingers and guessing.

All of the top Mila players have dropped her. Her nerfs were unwarranted and I'm not going to thank Team Ninja for it by forcing myself to keep playing the character. They nerfed Helena, so I switched to Mila, now they nerf Mila for no reason. I'm done.

Meh. We'll just wait until someone finds a new way to exploit/abuse her new tweaks, then she'll pop back up.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I hear so much from Americans and Asians. How about the Europeans. Who do they compare to more and where do they stand?

 

[DrDogg]

Yes, but the other side of the coin is that both win... I know that can be a problem, but when the audience of your game has different general priorities or thoughts about the game, I don't think that there are many alternatives for this.

How do they both win? We wanted more guaranteed situations, we got CB. They nerfed CB so hard it's meaningless for anything other than connecting a Power Blow. If anything, the Japanese won... but as I said, it was lose/lose.

 

[dawnbringer]

They nerfed CB so hard it's meaningless for anything other than connecting a Power Blow.

It adds 12 damage and allows to do the best launcher afterwards.

 

[Kronin]

As I said both aspects are still in this version. This is a great compromise for both.

Sorry maybe you misunderstood me, mine wasn't a complaint and I'm fine with the current game.

 

[P1naatt1ke1tt0]

I hear so much from Americans and Asians. How about the Europeans. Who do they compare to more and where do they stand?

I was just in a lobby a few days back full of solid players, from the Netherlands or France, I'm not sure. They were really good, no scrubs there. All of them praised DOA4 as the best DOA and hated CBs and loved the heavy damaging, big-window counters of 4. I almost died of frustration trying to argument with them for guaranteed damage and the necessity of the counter hold nerf. But I'm not sure if that mentality has polluted the whole Europe, I sure hope not. Well, Finnish players seem to like 5 better... and Swedish too I bet.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

I was just in a lobby a few days back full of solid players, from the Netherlands or France, I'm not sure. They were really good, no scrubs there. All of they praised DOA4 as the best DOA and hated CBs and loved the heavy damaging, big-window counters of 4. I almost died of frustration trying to argument with them for guaranteed damage and the necessity of the counter hold nerf. But I'm not sure if that mentality has polluted the whole Europe, I sure hope not. Well, Finnish players seem to like 5 better... and Swedish too I bet.

I don't know, the French audience has nothing against CBs, these guys were probably an exception. When I'm listening to French podcasts, the main argument is basically that DOA4 had so many fails DOA5 did succeed to correct.

 

[P1naatt1ke1tt0]

I don't know, the French audience has nothing against CBs, these guys were probably an exception. When I'm listening to French podcasts, the main argument is basically that DOA4 had so many fails DOA5 did succeed to correct.

NL it was then.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I was just in a lobby a few days back full of solid players, from the Netherlands or France, I'm not sure. They were really good, no scrubs there. All of them praised DOA4 as the best DOA and hated CBs and loved the heavy damaging, big-window counters of 4. I almost died of frustration trying to argument with them for guaranteed damage and the necessity of the counter hold nerf. But I'm not sure if that mentality has polluted the whole Europe, I sure hope not. Well, Finnish players seem to like 5 better... and Swedish too I bet.

Ohhh ok. Seems like they could share similar views as Japan. Poor US, were all alone.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Ohhh ok. Seems like they share similar views as Japan. Poor US, were all alone.

Really? I have never heard anyone say DOA4 is better than DOA5. Where do you guys find these people?

If anyone was saying that having massive active frames on counters is better I would be quite likely to say they were scrubs. It's not like it is hard to time a counter correctly. In fact I still think counters could do with a slight decrease in active frames, quite often I delay my attack to bait a counter and still get caught by the last frames of the counter.

Counters should really only work in reaction to an attack not countering and hoping an attack lands on it.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Really? I have never heard anyone say DOA4 is better than DOA5. Where do you guys find these people?

If anyone was saying that having massive active frames on counters has better I would be quite likely to say they were scrubs.

Im just getting info from the guy i quoted.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Im just getting info from the guy i quoted.

One group of people never represents a whole country, let alone Europe which is a large group of countries.