Raansu
Well-Known Member
Unless they change how cliffhangers work I'd rather not see anymore of them. Reason why there are only two to begin with is because of the backlash TN got about the mechanic.
New DOA5 version announced (Momiji!!!)
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Unless they change how cliffhangers work I'd rather not see anymore of them. Reason why there are only two to begin with is because of the backlash TN got about the mechanic.
bingsoo
Well-Known Member
No, if they wanted to say "fuck you" to the fans, they would've never spent money to patch the game, release a free stage or any free dlc, and never would have bothered with an update to the game.
I know another purchase for a game with a lot of overlapping content isn't the most appealing thing in the world, but it's far from what you're implying. I'm not sure if you got to play Razor's Edge, but that was well worth the separate purchase. It's common knowledge that DOA 5 was rushed, and this complete version is indeed somewhat of an annoyance, but it also holds positive implications as well--that TN does care to update our game. Plus, we don't even know what new content the updated version will have.
I would've personally viewed a DOAX3 as more of a "fuck you."
just take away the ability to defend against them and were good
It is a sad day when people can't tell the difference between + and ++
Dutch Samurai
Active Member
Let me just respond by saying this: Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge.
you mean the Razors Edge that is a huge improvement and has gotten prase from both critics and fans of the series? i fail to see the point you are trying to make.
TN and its older fans are the only people in the world who use the term,not that hard to see how its going to confuse
Dutch Samurai
Active Member
My point is that RE is the game that the original NG3 should have been in the first place. The improvements should have been patches to vanilla NG3. Instead, it was released as a separate game (originally for a separate console) that we the buyers of vanilla are now expected to pay for. We payed for a shitty game... They improved the game so it's no longer shitty... Now they expect us to pay again for the game now that it's fixed.
Now, I'm not saying DoA5 is a shitty game, but it is lacking in a few areas. It seems that this version is the game that DoA5 was meant to be, but wasn't released due to "time constraints."
If TN decides to release this as new, free, or at least reasonably priced downloadable content for vanilla DoA5, I'll be the first to eat my words.
werewolfgold
Well-Known Member
Well, there has to be something to it. Otherwise, it's just "pick which badass move you would like your character to do." It might as well just be a scripted cutscene. But, I think the point was to go beyond just knocking people over the edge as has been done 1000 times over in the previous games and in this one.
If they do keep it around, maybe they can make all of them like Flow where you have the option of whether you aim for the cliffhanger of just the default knocking them over the edge. Perhaps with the cliffhanger leading to a lot more damage since there's the risk of it getting rejected.
Dutch Samurai
Active Member
You make some good points. I understand time constraints and deadlines and I do applaud TN for improving the games we love. And yes, the release of another DoAX game would be another slap to the community that wants to improve the reputation of the game.
That being said, I think there should be more options for the people who bought the "rushed" version of the game. I, for one, still have the receipt for the CE of vanilla DoA5. I think that for those of us who bought vanilla, we should be able to purchase this version, if released as a separate game, for a substantial discount, at the very least.
You're thinking like an entitled gamer rather than a software consumer. Games are software, remember? You see Adobe handing out discounts to previous buyers? I know when I buy new versions of Sony Vegas I'm not getting a discount at all. Windows? Microsoft doesn't give a damn.
Team NINJA, and Tecmo Koei overall, are in the business of making money. They have a newer, better version of their software and they're likely going to offer it on a discount over the normal $60 USD that they traditionally bring things out at. Asking for more than that, or even a discount at all, just sounds backwards. There have been plenty of analogies in here, including my own. Pick one and roll with it. This is the way a business works, and a business needs money to keep going. They're paying their staff the entire time during development and they're going to recoup those costs, hopefully, by selling us another product.
Be grateful that our favorite developer is still around in an industry that is cannibalizing itself. Metacritic scores, internet fanboys having too loud a mouthpiece, and prissy little bitches writing 'professional' reviews on the major sites are ruining this industry in a pretty swift fashion simply because the more information people have access to the less likely they are to think for themselves.
Perspective.
Dutch Samurai
Active Member
If wanting the best value for my hard-earned money makes me entitled in your eyes, so be it.
But instead of TN wasting time making an "Ultimate" version of DoA5, they should be working on making DoA6 the best game it can be, so they won't need to release a DoA6: Ultimate a year later.
Another perspective.
But instead of TN wasting time making an "Ultimate" version of DoA5, they should be working on making DoA6 the best game it can be, so they won't need to release a DoA6: Ultimate a year later.
Another perspective.
That's a romantic notion.
Tell me, how do you think brand new projects get green-lit? How do you think the engine for what will almost need to be a PS4/Xbox Whatever gets developed or finished? They need money. They also need to be able to prove that there is a sustainable interest in the franchises they wish to continue.
Like it or not, DLC and these sort of too-big-for-just-DLC updates are quick ways to get some money and give people the extra content they're clamoring for without pulling all of their manpower and resources from other projects in the pipeline. And for a team the size of Team NINJA, they're not exactly quick, either. These projects are pretty big undertakings and I'm personally glad they're supporting the games. I'll show them with my money. You're welcome to withhold yours if that's how you wish to show them, but this is the exact concept Kickstarter got built around. We fund the things we like.
Tell me, how do you think brand new projects get green-lit? How do you think the engine for what will almost need to be a PS4/Xbox Whatever gets developed or finished? They need money. They also need to be able to prove that there is a sustainable interest in the franchises they wish to continue.
Like it or not, DLC and these sort of too-big-for-just-DLC updates are quick ways to get some money and give people the extra content they're clamoring for without pulling all of their manpower and resources from other projects in the pipeline. And for a team the size of Team NINJA, they're not exactly quick, either. These projects are pretty big undertakings and I'm personally glad they're supporting the games. I'll show them with my money. You're welcome to withhold yours if that's how you wish to show them, but this is the exact concept Kickstarter got built around. We fund the things we like.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
To add to that I also think its a problem with console gaming. It makes it difficult for free stuff to come out, or else I believe there would've been an update by now. Which is why Timesplitters 4 is coming to PC only cause its free. Knowing this I'm definitely getting DoA5U. Its a problem with console gaming not the company.
Dutch Samurai
Active Member
"We fund the things we like." I agree with this statement 100%. The fact that most of us here and many others bought vanilla DoA5 is a testament to that. They have our money to start development on DoA6... They don't need to do an Ultimate version of 5. I don't get why so many people are so complacent with this trend of developers putting out inferior game, buying them, then buying the "new and improved" versions the developers put out soon after.
To want them to get it right the first time, perhaps is a romantic concept, in today's world. But I don't see it as unrealistic.
Just because I've been fortunate enough to see behind the veil with a few different developers now, I'll mention this one last thing since this has been a good exchange in general: the reason we get "inferior" or seeming unfinished products is nearly 100% of the time the fault of a publisher pushing a date. Getting a game out in time to hit a mark on a fiscal calendar is almost always the cause of something feeling rushed.
I'll leave it there for now and I appreciate you keeping it civil. I come off as a bit harsh online thanks to how blunt I am but this was a pretty fun back and forth. As a consumer I obviously get where you're coming from, but with some insight from friends in the industry I look at things from both sides of the coin and generally try to give the dev the benefit of the doubt.
Dutch Samurai
Active Member
Thank you! I understand that not everything is the black and white, "oh we the poor consumers/those evil, greedy game developers!" type of thing. Nor a "oh we poor developers/those impossible-to-please consumers!" type of thing. I know there are legitimate reasons for why things happen the way they do in the gaming industry. You bring up good points that we, as consumers, don't always see. We only see the results of things. And overall, I'm satisfied with the way TN is handling things. They do seem to care for the games they make and for the concerns of the players of said games.
I don't feel you were wrong in presenting it from the developer's point of view. You brought up good points. It was a good discussion.
I don't feel you were wrong in presenting it from the developer's point of view. You brought up good points. It was a good discussion.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Yes, its a rarity here on the internet.
I think cliffhangers are fine, especially since there's always the "Safe" option of choosing Strike. The reason I'm OK with this is that the gamble is then for the extra bit of damage.. or the reset. This is absolutely fine.
having one or 2 more like this would not hurt.
but turning it into a cinematic would kill the flow of the fight entirely. It may be nice the 1st 100 times. but then it would just be a drag. (I'm looking at you injustice)
Now imagine you had a hold option instead of block for the defender ?? That would make it really shitty and I would side with all of you and ask to get rid of it altogether. But, the way it is now ? .. yeah .. I see nothing wrong with it.
As for Tag..
No, I was one of the biggest oppositions to the 1.03A glitch ... ESPECIALLY in tag since tag mode was already solid enough with its structure that it allowed guaranteed setups using TAG CANCELING, which actually required skill.
Now its so retarded that its actually alienated people from playing tag, eliminated a big part of the threat of losing a single character since one single character can stand their ground pretty solidly now without SE (which basically defeats the whole point of tag mode in the first place), and worst of all, created a new set of frame data for the ground game of the whole cast in the SAME GAME which causes a lot of top players to look the other way since no1 wants to play with 2 rule sets since the main mode will always be "Single Player".
Yes, I would like ver. 1.02 tag mode back please, thank you.
having one or 2 more like this would not hurt.
but turning it into a cinematic would kill the flow of the fight entirely. It may be nice the 1st 100 times. but then it would just be a drag. (I'm looking at you injustice)
Now imagine you had a hold option instead of block for the defender ?? That would make it really shitty and I would side with all of you and ask to get rid of it altogether. But, the way it is now ? .. yeah .. I see nothing wrong with it.
As for Tag..
No, I was one of the biggest oppositions to the 1.03A glitch ... ESPECIALLY in tag since tag mode was already solid enough with its structure that it allowed guaranteed setups using TAG CANCELING, which actually required skill.
Now its so retarded that its actually alienated people from playing tag, eliminated a big part of the threat of losing a single character since one single character can stand their ground pretty solidly now without SE (which basically defeats the whole point of tag mode in the first place), and worst of all, created a new set of frame data for the ground game of the whole cast in the SAME GAME which causes a lot of top players to look the other way since no1 wants to play with 2 rule sets since the main mode will always be "Single Player".
Yes, I would like ver. 1.02 tag mode back please, thank you.
Yeah people keep saying that but let's do the math here only two of the stages actually even have a cliffhanger option and only one of them even gives you a decent chance of activating it.a fight can be settled on Flow before you even get close to triggering it most often so really that's pretty much just Scramble you're ever going to see it on and even on that stage it's rare to see.
These things are a pain to set up I want some sort of reward.
These things are a pain to set up I want some sort of reward.
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