Free Step Dodge

And THEN for any of that to matter you need to know your opponent's frame data so you know when they make a mistake and you can punish with the correct move from your massive arsenal

The thing about Tekken is that more than half of your character's moves on counter hit can lead to a juggle. Get counter hit by a 11 frame roundhouse kick, you're already juggled and 30% of your health is already lost. Get hit by a face-down low wake up kick, you're gonna get juggled again and lose another of that 30%.

Tekken is a defensive game because hopkick = juggle; counter hit = juggle.

Basically Anything that isn't DoA.... literally everything else is unnecessarily More Difficult.

And thats just picking it up.... its literally just trying to get Started with the game.

@Shirataki Tsume yeah but that's not the core thing about tekken, if you get hit with a juggle its deserved since you shouldn't have hit a button. If You're using that argument, we could say that DOA is just a masher because of the simplistic inputs when that's not true.

Yeah that's a pretty gross oversimplification of the very nuanced and strict movement and neutral game that makes up Tekken's biggest learning curve. Anyone can lab out flawless optimal juggles eventually, in that regard all 3D fighters that involve launchers are the same.

Yeah, that and DOA has launchers too, but perhaps the thing that many new players fear is that stun since when you're stunned there's so much going against you and a hi counter throw can do WAY more damage than Tekken could do from one juggle xD also you don't see much juggling in higher level tekken since its more spacing and neutral pokes until someone makes a mistake which I love

High level Korean Tekken gameplay is intense to watch yeah. Ultimately the two games are completely different beasts with Tekken being all about precision and technical skill through frame knowledge and reaction time with the harsh movement game, while DOA has a much bigger demand on mind games and mixing up your combos so you can get to your launcher.

@KasumiLover69 Tekken is actually my main fighting game and I know almost everything about it from the smallest to the biggest changes of its mechanics from TK1 to TK7. Every 3D fighting game has launchers and juggles, but Tekken's number of launchers is way higher than the other 3, and I’m not trying to be a bigot.

Tekken's core game play is its movement, okizeme, heavy reliance on frames, and of course, juggling.

Yeah Oki really can be life or death in Tekken for sure, especially at the wall against certain characters. Asuka and Lili (Typically after wall carrying your carcass) can definitely blow you to pieces for not respecting the Oki.

You right though. CH Launchers are addicting and lucrative as hell in Tekken.

I don't think it's really that Tekken is harder than DOA, but more so that there are a lot more higher level players that have been playing for eons. The overall system in Tekken is more solid however despite feeling a bit more "tunnel-visioned". If you go up against a top player offline in DOA, you will get your shit kicked in too. The game is underrated at a high level play.

Especially against someone like Siologica or TeruRock for instance. (I don't count online play because it's illegitimate nonsense).

Well unless it's wired and the best possible connection at least xD

This is all completely true and I agree. Though. The movement and frame stuff is more demanding in Tekken than DOA.

For people like me that live in an area where there is literally no DOA scene locals aren't really an option unless I travel probably out of state, and that leaves Online for the most reliable source of PvP practice. It isn't perfect but it does give results no matter how "Illegitimate"

Because all movement in Tekken can be cancelled, which is why you see a lot of twitching in high level play when they're just spacing.

Tekken also doesn't have a triangle system nor move priority mechanic prior to Tekken Revolution unless it's the crush system. It's more based on speed; the one who the does the faster move/does a move first gets a hit.

Yeah, Tekken is more movement and spacing intensive (though don't imply that movement and spacing isn't extremely important in offline DOA matches), though I'd say DOA is slightly more frame intensive than Tekken since you only really need to know your i10, i11, i12, i13 moves/pokes and your i15+ launchers/pokes.

Tekken doesn't provide the frame data in game, so it doesn't come into play as much as DOA or VF with simple 112 or 22, etc. punishes being sufficient until you get to -15+ for launch punishes. Knowing which moves are + on block for your character or the opponent's character is important (such as Drag's WR 2 for instance) along with other similar frame traps.

In DOA you need to know the speed of an opponent character's pokes (which aren't normalized to i10 jabs & i13 elbows/mid punches), the frames on block (+, -, punishable by i5/7/10/12 or strike punishable), amount of advantage/disadvantage on NH, CH/stun, how slow escapable the stun advantage is, how far into the stun threshold you are, etc.

I personally found managing frames easier in Tekken 7 (Chicken is pretty cool!). Though wish Tekken had a proper in-game Move Details like DOA or VF.

So can we agree that no matter what game you want to play, if you expect to be any good at it, you need to dedicate yourself to learning the moves?

Learning the moves is a given. Learning fundamentals, the metagame, tech, and match-ups is of utmost importance. But yes, dedication is key. It's why a lot of gamers struggle to excel at fighting games. Dedication is work.