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nope i 8P after every untechable knockdown unless they are dieing and ground grab will kill them. not dealing with recovery kick with +22 frames is better then 12 more damage for me.

am sticking to stagger escape fastest only combos getting tired of people blocking my :8::P: sitdown into,:6::p+k: CB :mad: 8P, 3P to keep stun. 8P, 33K for launcher.

really big swing a move that pretty much only gets to be used on Lightweight chars.

But it did... Tina shining wizard was a catch throw, now it a normal throw not a OH, your point is invalid.

Tina running throw shining wizard isn't even an OH :| and i think the only thing tina really needs is for 46P to be + on block, not 0. at least +4 for it to matter, even with a +3 setup i am getting CH for attacking... i heard it was +5 in DOA4.

they can tech roll when they get hit, if they don't tech you can get a ground throw / force tech.

it cause when u do 46P frame 19-21 whiff, and it hit them on active frame 22 cause you can't hit before that, hitting 3 frame later getting you +3, same for 6H+K making it -1. just do 236 2364 T for buffer MTD while dashing if u know they gonna block. and no, no attack is guaranteed.

you already know :)

Force Tech :6::h+k:, :8::P: +22 and if you :4::6::P: on the first frame you get +3 on block :eek: :6::h+k: and for this you get -1 on block.

change it to Force Tech 1P 6H+K (13 damage, +9 advantage) hold 3P (6 damage, +17 advantage) 8P (7 damage, +22 advantage) no need for 2P 1P anymore and the best part yet! 8P +22 Force Tech has the right range for a 46P +3 on block and 6H+K -1:eek:!!! if your getting +1 or +2 your not doing it...

am in love with hold 3P Force tech, running that train +17 right in your face :cool: and the 2p 1p, misses sometimes... maybe am being slow. i do like u can running T after it.

i just try 6H+K hold 3P into H+K 16 frame attack, and it can be hold still. also u can't forget that strikes/throws hit on the next frame that the game tell you.

i know if you try that with a throw they can't throw a hold out, cause it take the 1 frame for the hold to come out.

46P hits way later at that range thats why u get +3/+4 on it, so it hitting at like 22/23.

after hold 3p force tech i just reset 6f+k Hold 3p till they block, and go for 66T or 41236T.

a juggle is nothing more then a combo get over it.

any untechable knockdown works i.e. :6::h+k:, :2::H+P:: +0 48 damage Force techs :6::h+k:, :1::P:, :6::h+k:: +9 41 damage :6::h+k:, :h3::P:: +17 34 damage these are the only ones i saw worth using

the hold recovery is equal to the number of stun frame they would have if they stagger escape on fastest... which is dumb, cause a spammed hold = Fastest Stagger Escape. so if a move give +22 stun, but 15 +stun on stagger escape on fastest then the hold would be over in 15 frames. but for them...

well it was 22 before... also these frames aren't really followed when Holding in stun.

18 frames. 1-2 hi counter 150% 3-10 counter 125% 11-18 normal damage 100% 19-30 recovery this is for holding normally (not stunned).