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If you can actually get a group together, I'll chip in. I don't think I'll play daily(ish), but enough to contribute.

:6::P::K: isn't necessarily unsafe. If you try to duck a throw, you will get grabbed. If you attack, you will HCH. Apparently, it takes 1 frame to duck.

So when will I hear the news that a patch is coming out and Hayate is gettin' some buffs bcuz I liek teh Hayatemon. Question mark.

If it ends up anything like SC4 was for me (Raphael), they will take away Hayate's good throw and that's it. No other adjustments. Will suck.

Hayate definitely needs a few tweaks here and there. I'm not going to have ANY hopes what-so-ever tho. I've played DOA and Soul Calibur casually and my favorite character never got anything nice - only nerfed (SC - Raphael). I do want to say however, one thing holding me back from going from...

:1::K: seems legit. I'm not entirely sure what to make out of it's "half crouched" status, however. Can't say I've done any testing to know if it's just garbage/luck, or if it's legit. When I'm being pressured I often toss this into their string or mix-ups and often land a counter-hit...

Is Hayate expected to see at least some minor buffs in upcoming patch(s)? He's not crap-tier terrible now or anything -- but definitely could use some changes to round him out, as we all know.

Oh, okay. Fastest escape does not work however.

Here is another "real" force tech: :9::P:, :3::P::P:, *sit down stun*, :3::3::K: launcher, :6::K:, :P::P::h2::K::K: Note: :8::p: launcher can be escaped, :3::3::k: cannot.

I'm not able to make this happen. If I try something like :9::P:, :P:, :4::K:, :f:, :4::K: *sit down stun* they recover from the stun with stagger escape quicker than you can follow-up with anything. Am I doin' it wrong?

Replace those :6::f: with :236::f:, :7::k:

A combo like (lightweight) :6::6::P:, extend :3::P:, launch :6::K:, :8::P:, :P::P::h2::K::K: force techs "for real". Generally using :P::P::h2::K::K: as an ender can force tech if you delay the last kick so it connects as they touch the ground. A little practice in training shows how this is...

So - it's been awhile - anyone have any goodies to share?

I'm seeing this grab at 7 frames on whiff, hit and in testing. I think people may have seen 12 because if you even so much as come close to touching :1: you get Raijin (thus 12).

I did some patch-peeling and it indeed was landing high for me. So, stealth buff somewhere in there. No low-counters throwing off the throw vs. crit stun (etc) option.

That's weird, Accurate. Did you have any time to test to see what it actually is, then? If not, I'll try tonight. I really hope it's 7.

Easy to get out of map often using Hayate's Raijin (or whatever its called now) near fall-down hazards like steps. You will throw them over into the steps but they will land on solid invisible ground and you can just walk out.

Coulda sworn when the game first came out that Hayate's :7::P: was a high. Just today in training and playing, it says and indeed is a mid. That's a huge plus -- unless I'm mistaken and it's always been mid.

Decided to play some DOA lately. Saw this. Awesome find. Doesn't entirely make sense on paper, but works. Gives Hayate an edge I was looking for. Indeed is 7 frames.

:1::K: is unsafe. I wish it was the old :1::K:, too. Mostly poking with :3::K: and :3::P: right now, for basic pokes. If they end an attack with a move that's very safe however, they can easily step either of these. Not sure what my best option is yet for an anti-step. Kinda jealous of...