Alpha Demo character differences? (nerfs/buffs)

[dawnbringer]

Couldn't agree more, every character should have some form of accessible frame advantage.

I understand that you are talking about pressure tools, but the most accessible frame advantage is from blocking incoming attack that doesn't give attacker any.

 

[Zeo]

I understand that you are talking about pressure tools, but the most accessible frame advantage is from blocking incoming attack that doesn't give attacker any.

In a game where 95% of all the attacks leave the aggressor at negative frames, you're right. And that's exactly the problem. The game shouldn't have you thinking "Ok as soon as he finishes his string I can just mash because I know he's at negative and I'll beat him out no matter what."

It should have you thinking "Ok, my opponent used a move that left him at advantage. what are my options? What are his options? whats the best thing I can do in this situation since I can't just mash buttons?"

 

[shunwong]

In a game where 95% of all the attacks leave the aggressor at negative frames, you're right. And that's exactly the problem. The game shouldn't have you thinking "Ok as soon as he finishes his string I can just mash because I know he's at negative and I'll beat him out no matter what.

It should have you thinking "Ok, my opponent used a move that left him at advantage. what are my options? What are his options? whats the best thing I can do in this situation since I can't just mash buttons?"

Also, "as soon as he finishes his string" can be a long wait in DOA, as there are very long strings. In the end, blocking gets you thrown or counter hit when you finally decide it's "safe" to attack, only to find out the string was still not finished.

 

[Zeo]

Also, "as soon as he finishes his string" can be a long wait in DOA, as there are very long strings. In the end, blocking gets you thrown or counter hit when you finally decide it's "safe" to attack, only to find out the string was still not finished.

That's pretty much the extent of the depth in DOA5. You're basically forced to guess weather or not your opponent is going to finish their string or free cancel into another attack or a grab. Guessing, which everyone loves to do. Some things can be reacted to, but some things force you to guess, which brings us back to square 1.

Despite that, there are strings with high attacks which are easily crushed, interrupted or even low held out of. But you have to guess they are going to finish the string. Again, square 1.

 

[DR2K]

And I'm laughing at the fact that you don't think they are.

Hey you're wrong, we all are at one point. Don't feel too bad about it.

 

[Raansu]

Hey you're wrong, we all are at one point. Don't feel too bad about it.

And I'm still laughing. It's amazing the amount of times I've corrected you on these forums and you still argue with me on every subject.

 

[Jefffcore]

A frame trap is a frame trap. Unless your character is already stupid slow, it has the same effect every time. I don't get the argument...

 

[DR2K]

And I'm still laughing. It's amazing the amount of times I've corrected you on these forums and you still argue with me on every subject.

Wallowing in your own ignorance doesn't suit you.

A frame trap is a frame trap. Unless your character is already stupid slow, it has the same effect every time. I don't get the argument...

That wasn't the arguement.

 

[Raansu]

A frame trap is a frame trap. Unless your character is already stupid slow, it has the same effect every time. I don't get the argument...

He's saying they are useless because of holds and I'm simply laughing at him. He has no idea the world of difference it would make if Hitomi's 3f+k was still +2/3 (depending on range) and if 6p+k was still +1. If she still had those on top of 2p being +1 and her throw being +10 and a parry being +7 you would be in a world of hurt. He has no idea how much of a difference it would make and has probably yet to fight a good player using the VF characters that can and will frame trap you (especially Sarah)

I would prefer more guaranteed tools, but those moves getting frame advantage (especially 3f+k, a gap closer/whiff punisher that's + on block? fuck ya) would make a huge difference for Hitomi. She could actually apply REAL pressure instead of the BS "false pressure" that DoA is known for with its free canceling and string delays.

 

[Jefffcore]

Ohhh, ok.

Because you're still in a blocking state and not in a stun state (there are stuns in the game that are so short, they give a similar effect), you can be thrown regardless of whether you hold or not. The smart thing to do is block or fuzzy guard until you see them throw you, otherwise you're saying "hey take more damage from me". You really don't wanna press buttons when you get put at advantage, cause smart players will be all over the throw button.

Frame traps are still super useful, the hold rarely comes into play.

 

[Sly Bass]

That's pretty much the extent of the depth in DOA5. You're basically forced to guess weather or not your opponent is going to finish their string or free cancel into another attack or a grab. Guessing, which everyone loves to do. Some things can be reacted to, but some things force you to guess, which brings us back to square 1.

Despite that, there are strings with high attacks which are easily crushed, interrupted or even low held out of. But you have to guess they are going to finish the string. Again, square 1.

I hate to say it Zeo, but as long as there is a human element, you're going to be guessing. Unless you have the power to read minds.

 

[Brute]

It's funny that the game with the most options to punish an aggressor (defensive holds) is also the fighting game with the most frame disadvantage in the roster.