Ask Team NINJA
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Red dragon
Member
so the + part of the pad pops in and out? Thats good and bad at the same time.
I dont think i could afford another controller for a while anyways. I got 2 wireless and i bought a wired one with a warranty from best buy a couple of months back before i left. I dont need another controller.
One of my wireless ones has a d pad from the xbox controller s, and i havent had any issues with it since.
I was thinking of investing in one of these controllers that u guys are talking about but if the d pad snaps off like a chopstick after a week of usage, im not so sure im going to invest in one.
The kinect has been out for a while and im still debating about getting one. I can't afford one anyways atm.
I dont think i could afford another controller for a while anyways. I got 2 wireless and i bought a wired one with a warranty from best buy a couple of months back before i left. I dont need another controller.
One of my wireless ones has a d pad from the xbox controller s, and i havent had any issues with it since.
I was thinking of investing in one of these controllers that u guys are talking about but if the d pad snaps off like a chopstick after a week of usage, im not so sure im going to invest in one.
The kinect has been out for a while and im still debating about getting one. I can't afford one anyways atm.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I think you're missing the point dragon.
It's completely solid in the circular position, and the circular position is vastly better then any other controller's dpad currently out for the 360. It isn't going to snap off if you use it that way.
It's completely worth the investment.
Anyway sooner or later you'll get to hold one yourself, then you shall see...
It's completely solid in the circular position, and the circular position is vastly better then any other controller's dpad currently out for the 360. It isn't going to snap off if you use it that way.
It's completely worth the investment.
Anyway sooner or later you'll get to hold one yourself, then you shall see...
Red dragon
Member
Hopefully, if my broke ass can get some extra money.
Please be aware that these comments, feedback, and questions all come from a “competitive player” mindset, some of the players have been playing fighting games and Dead or Alive for over 10 years. This includes players who are or have been actively playing in competitive tournaments for various fighting games as well.
The following is a list of common terminology that may be mentioned in the questions:
• Slow Escape: Pressing multiple directions and buttons rapidly to speed up animations
• Slow Escape Meter: The invisible meter that builds up the more the user slow escapes, and slowly deteriorates as the user stops slow escaping.
• Dead or Alive 3.1: The name the community has given to the Asia version of Dead or Alive 3 due to being released after the North American version (3.0) but before the European version (3.2).
• Natural Combo: The terminology used to indicate a guaranteed string or part of a string that is not holdable by the stunned or normal hit player. An example of a two hit natural combo is Leon’s DOA3.1 66PP or Hayate’s DOA3.1 8PP.
• Wall Crumple: The animation for when an opponent falls forward after hitting the wall.
Questions for Shimbori-sensei
1. As a fan of the “Fighting Game” genre, besides Dead or Alive, do you have any other fighting games that you enjoy playing?
2. You mentioned that the Japanese tier list for Dead or Alive 2, 3, and 4 were completely different from the tier list Perfect Legend suggested in his questions. What are the tier lists from the Japanese players for each version?
3. Why did you remove the Throw Break from the throw system? Why not implement a throw break system for added depth instead of taking away what little was there?
4. Why does every move appear to stun, even on normal hit? Many American players feel that this was done to reduce the amount of natural combos, providing users more opportunities to hold out of critical state.
5. Why do you not let the user set the Computer AI in Sparring mode to perform a specific move from the move list? The player may want to train reaction times against a specific move or a specific move of a string. Additionally, why is there not an option to have the AI defensive hold while in critical state?
6. Should there be a future Dead or Alive for the home consoles (Xbox & PlayStation), would Team NINJA consider utilizing a Network Variable system (netvars)? This is a system where each variable of the title can be read from a server in control by Tecmo-Koei. Should this file have an updated or tweaked move list, Team NINJA could upload the file to the server the game searches for. This would allow immediate patching to the characters, system changes, and move lists without having to send a patch through Microsoft or Sony Certification. Two videogame titles that use such a feature are BRINK for the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and PC, and Mortal Kombat 9 for the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
7. Should there be a future Dead or Alive for the home consoles, would it be possible to either (1) have the ability to copy the save data for unlockable characters, or (2) have every character unlocked by default – leaving the unlocks for costumes and other items?
8. Why are there separate life settings in the option settings? Although a majority of the American players play on Normal Life, allowing for a life setting change in the game can alter the balance of the characters drastically, and splitting not only the offline community but the online community. It would be easier to have matches online if there were no life setting and instead there was just one setting.
9. Can there be a smaller buffering window for the input system? This does not mean the delays between strings, but the window for which the system recognizes the player pressing 4 and F and deciding if the user wanted to cancel their backstep into a guard or do a defensive hold. This also applies to teching off the ground. In Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive Dimensions the player could simply rapidly press any button to tech the ground as soon as their body came close to it from a juggle state. The original Dead or Alive required a smaller window to tech when hitting the ground.
10. Would it be possible to allow grapplers’ ground throws to connect to a teching opponent or return to Dead or Alive 3 status where they will connect at the early frames of a wake-up kick or tech. In Dead or Alive 3, the player typically had to learn to tech away from the opponent in the correct way in order to avoid grappler ground throws.
The following is a list of common terminology that may be mentioned in the questions:
• Slow Escape: Pressing multiple directions and buttons rapidly to speed up animations
• Slow Escape Meter: The invisible meter that builds up the more the user slow escapes, and slowly deteriorates as the user stops slow escaping.
• Dead or Alive 3.1: The name the community has given to the Asia version of Dead or Alive 3 due to being released after the North American version (3.0) but before the European version (3.2).
• Natural Combo: The terminology used to indicate a guaranteed string or part of a string that is not holdable by the stunned or normal hit player. An example of a two hit natural combo is Leon’s DOA3.1 66PP or Hayate’s DOA3.1 8PP.
• Wall Crumple: The animation for when an opponent falls forward after hitting the wall.
Questions for Shimbori-sensei
1. As a fan of the “Fighting Game” genre, besides Dead or Alive, do you have any other fighting games that you enjoy playing?
2. You mentioned that the Japanese tier list for Dead or Alive 2, 3, and 4 were completely different from the tier list Perfect Legend suggested in his questions. What are the tier lists from the Japanese players for each version?
3. Why did you remove the Throw Break from the throw system? Why not implement a throw break system for added depth instead of taking away what little was there?
4. Why does every move appear to stun, even on normal hit? Many American players feel that this was done to reduce the amount of natural combos, providing users more opportunities to hold out of critical state.
5. Why do you not let the user set the Computer AI in Sparring mode to perform a specific move from the move list? The player may want to train reaction times against a specific move or a specific move of a string. Additionally, why is there not an option to have the AI defensive hold while in critical state?
6. Should there be a future Dead or Alive for the home consoles (Xbox & PlayStation), would Team NINJA consider utilizing a Network Variable system (netvars)? This is a system where each variable of the title can be read from a server in control by Tecmo-Koei. Should this file have an updated or tweaked move list, Team NINJA could upload the file to the server the game searches for. This would allow immediate patching to the characters, system changes, and move lists without having to send a patch through Microsoft or Sony Certification. Two videogame titles that use such a feature are BRINK for the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and PC, and Mortal Kombat 9 for the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
7. Should there be a future Dead or Alive for the home consoles, would it be possible to either (1) have the ability to copy the save data for unlockable characters, or (2) have every character unlocked by default – leaving the unlocks for costumes and other items?
8. Why are there separate life settings in the option settings? Although a majority of the American players play on Normal Life, allowing for a life setting change in the game can alter the balance of the characters drastically, and splitting not only the offline community but the online community. It would be easier to have matches online if there were no life setting and instead there was just one setting.
9. Can there be a smaller buffering window for the input system? This does not mean the delays between strings, but the window for which the system recognizes the player pressing 4 and F and deciding if the user wanted to cancel their backstep into a guard or do a defensive hold. This also applies to teching off the ground. In Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive Dimensions the player could simply rapidly press any button to tech the ground as soon as their body came close to it from a juggle state. The original Dead or Alive required a smaller window to tech when hitting the ground.
10. Would it be possible to allow grapplers’ ground throws to connect to a teching opponent or return to Dead or Alive 3 status where they will connect at the early frames of a wake-up kick or tech. In Dead or Alive 3, the player typically had to learn to tech away from the opponent in the correct way in order to avoid grappler ground throws.
Feedback and Suggestions
1. The community would greatly appreciate it if the controller configuration menus were changed. Currently (Dead or Alive 4), the configuration lists the button which the user must highlight, then scroll left or right to locate the function to assign the button. This takes too long when setting up configurations. Please watch someone who doesn’t know which button is what on the controller try to set their configuration: They have to look down at the controller to see which button they want to change, then scroll through a list that they do not know to find a function they may not be sure they need. Instead, the configuration should list the function and ask the user to press the button they want to assign to this function. The idea is that a player may be using an arcade stick or controller for which they don’t know which buttons the stick buttons are assigned to. This effectively can make the configuration setup less than 2 seconds. Examples of other fighting games that do this: BlazBlue, Super Street Fighter II HD Remix, and Street Fighter III: Third Strike Online Edition.
2. The controller configuration menu should be accessible from the character select screen and/or the pause menu. This saves time from backing out of whatever game mode is being played, changing configurations, and without having to navigate to the Main Menu > Option > Controller Configuration > Main Menu > Game Mode.
3. In Dead or Alive Dimensions, the title forced the player to assign a function to every button including macros. This made it difficult for players who had become accustomed to being able to disable certain buttons from accidentally being pressed or unwanted macros being used. At the maximum, a player should be required to have F, P, and K assigned; macros should not be required – including “F+P”.
4. Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive Dimensions have shown to be very attack heavy, made to force the stun game. This has hurt the grappler class very much because not only do they already have much slower attacks than the strikers, but their throw punishment speeds were increased to make it harder to use throws. In addition, their strings aren’t equally damaging to strikers for juggling. Their air and ground throws were severely damaged due to the height and ground restrictions that in Dead or Alive 2 and Dead or Alive 3 helped balance their lack of attack juggling damage.
5. Many American players feel that the throw system needs to return to the Dead or Alive 2 and Dead or Alive 3 system style: A select few characters have an Offensive Hold instead of all of the characters. Grapplers’ throw speeds allowed easier punishment with throws instead of attacks. The grapplers could rely on grappling due to their low stun-game and string mix-ups, but in Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive Dimensions they are forced to play the stun game which they have to struggle so hard to compete.
6. The attack strings and options all give disadvantage on block, including guard breaks and guard crushes. In Dead or Alive 3.1, the advantage on block given to a character (typically a striker like Hayate or Jann Lee) provided not only a move to keep pressure, but the advantage gained from it allowed for educated guessing that the player will utilize this move a great advantage of the time. This allowed players to create educated guesses against their opponent, and punish those who did not properly learn the attacks and options to avoid it.
7. There needs to be some sort of sidestepping system to step linear and semi-circular attacks. In 3D fighting games, the stepping system is used as a evasion system such as a 2D fighter’s jump system. Due to the lack of an attack sidestepping system, the Dead or Alive series gets a lot of negativity because it doesn’t utilize its stepping system for evasion from the competitor, but instead evasion from the environment.
8. In addition to the sidestepping system, the hitboxes feel too large in Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive Dimensions. Many American players enjoyed the way they could use their evasive stepping to punish opponents just rapidly pressing the buttons.
9. In relation Combo Throws, having Combo Throws breakable by some characters but unbreakable by others is confusing to the users, especially when the unbreakable (typically assigned to non-grapplers) ones provide more options and damage opportunity than the breakable ones (typically assigned to grapplers). If it’s a matter of “some throws look like they should be escapable, or have a way to be escaped” then why not make the guaranteed combo throws non-combo throws and play the entire throw animation?
10. The community did not like that Guard Breaks, Guard Crushes and Wall Crumples are considered “Critical States”. The punishment for not holding the Guard Breaking attack should be a Guard Break on the opponent. Additionally, the frame advantage from the guard break should either make the attack safe from punishment or give enough of an advantage to guarantee an attack or attacks. This allows for character strategy set-ups and keeping the opponent respectful of the attack. Each of these three animation states can still be Slow Escaped as well, but the Wall Crumple should not be allowed to Slow Escape as fast as Dead or Alive 4 allows.
1. The community would greatly appreciate it if the controller configuration menus were changed. Currently (Dead or Alive 4), the configuration lists the button which the user must highlight, then scroll left or right to locate the function to assign the button. This takes too long when setting up configurations. Please watch someone who doesn’t know which button is what on the controller try to set their configuration: They have to look down at the controller to see which button they want to change, then scroll through a list that they do not know to find a function they may not be sure they need. Instead, the configuration should list the function and ask the user to press the button they want to assign to this function. The idea is that a player may be using an arcade stick or controller for which they don’t know which buttons the stick buttons are assigned to. This effectively can make the configuration setup less than 2 seconds. Examples of other fighting games that do this: BlazBlue, Super Street Fighter II HD Remix, and Street Fighter III: Third Strike Online Edition.
2. The controller configuration menu should be accessible from the character select screen and/or the pause menu. This saves time from backing out of whatever game mode is being played, changing configurations, and without having to navigate to the Main Menu > Option > Controller Configuration > Main Menu > Game Mode.
3. In Dead or Alive Dimensions, the title forced the player to assign a function to every button including macros. This made it difficult for players who had become accustomed to being able to disable certain buttons from accidentally being pressed or unwanted macros being used. At the maximum, a player should be required to have F, P, and K assigned; macros should not be required – including “F+P”.
4. Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive Dimensions have shown to be very attack heavy, made to force the stun game. This has hurt the grappler class very much because not only do they already have much slower attacks than the strikers, but their throw punishment speeds were increased to make it harder to use throws. In addition, their strings aren’t equally damaging to strikers for juggling. Their air and ground throws were severely damaged due to the height and ground restrictions that in Dead or Alive 2 and Dead or Alive 3 helped balance their lack of attack juggling damage.
5. Many American players feel that the throw system needs to return to the Dead or Alive 2 and Dead or Alive 3 system style: A select few characters have an Offensive Hold instead of all of the characters. Grapplers’ throw speeds allowed easier punishment with throws instead of attacks. The grapplers could rely on grappling due to their low stun-game and string mix-ups, but in Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive Dimensions they are forced to play the stun game which they have to struggle so hard to compete.
6. The attack strings and options all give disadvantage on block, including guard breaks and guard crushes. In Dead or Alive 3.1, the advantage on block given to a character (typically a striker like Hayate or Jann Lee) provided not only a move to keep pressure, but the advantage gained from it allowed for educated guessing that the player will utilize this move a great advantage of the time. This allowed players to create educated guesses against their opponent, and punish those who did not properly learn the attacks and options to avoid it.
7. There needs to be some sort of sidestepping system to step linear and semi-circular attacks. In 3D fighting games, the stepping system is used as a evasion system such as a 2D fighter’s jump system. Due to the lack of an attack sidestepping system, the Dead or Alive series gets a lot of negativity because it doesn’t utilize its stepping system for evasion from the competitor, but instead evasion from the environment.
8. In addition to the sidestepping system, the hitboxes feel too large in Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive Dimensions. Many American players enjoyed the way they could use their evasive stepping to punish opponents just rapidly pressing the buttons.
9. In relation Combo Throws, having Combo Throws breakable by some characters but unbreakable by others is confusing to the users, especially when the unbreakable (typically assigned to non-grapplers) ones provide more options and damage opportunity than the breakable ones (typically assigned to grapplers). If it’s a matter of “some throws look like they should be escapable, or have a way to be escaped” then why not make the guaranteed combo throws non-combo throws and play the entire throw animation?
10. The community did not like that Guard Breaks, Guard Crushes and Wall Crumples are considered “Critical States”. The punishment for not holding the Guard Breaking attack should be a Guard Break on the opponent. Additionally, the frame advantage from the guard break should either make the attack safe from punishment or give enough of an advantage to guarantee an attack or attacks. This allows for character strategy set-ups and keeping the opponent respectful of the attack. Each of these three animation states can still be Slow Escaped as well, but the Wall Crumple should not be allowed to Slow Escape as fast as Dead or Alive 4 allows.
I'm fairly certain that they do. They were too lazy to give Alpha's moves proper names in the Dimensions guide and used the inputs, noted just like that. Fun fact: They mixed up the names on her kkkk2k and kkkk7k in the guide.
In regards to the actual content, I think you're far too polite in your suggestions. In Perfect Legend's interviews, he was very polite as well with "What about this issue? What about that issue?" Team Ninja's response was "Well, we didn't think they were issues." I believe we need to be a bit more forward and blunt with "This is an issue. Here's why and here are some suggestions on how to fix it."
I'm pretty sure Mr. Wah understands DOA much more than Team Ninja at this point and I think being more forward like that would get more positive results.
In regards to the actual content, I think you're far too polite in your suggestions. In Perfect Legend's interviews, he was very polite as well with "What about this issue? What about that issue?" Team Ninja's response was "Well, we didn't think they were issues." I believe we need to be a bit more forward and blunt with "This is an issue. Here's why and here are some suggestions on how to fix it."
I'm pretty sure Mr. Wah understands DOA much more than Team Ninja at this point and I think being more forward like that would get more positive results.
LivingShadow
Member
With regards to 9 (combo throws) I think the main issue is not that throws look breakable but that certain ones look unbreakable. Initially one would think that the Inazuma drop is unbreakable, however, theoretically if a character were to push Hayabusa away or otherwise avoid his grip before he managed to grab a hold in midair they would prevent him from performing the full maneuver and thus take less damage (in this case just the damage of falling back down).
LivingShadow
Member
But I think that point needs to be brought up when discussing them. The fact that there are ways to make certain throws breakable that are currently unbreakable to fix consistency.
LivingShadow
Member
In that case it's probably good to mention or reference it again.
In regards to question 7, why don't you suggest what the Rock Band and Guitar Hero games did? A code that unlocks everything but disables saving and achievements/trophies. You could call it a "tournament" code as it would be strictly used for making things easier at tournaments and similar events. No dealing with messy save files.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
This is actually an amazing idea.
I thought it was Korean notation.
Here's another question:
Early versions of DOA4 we saw seemed very promising but something happened late in development that completely changed how the game played. Would you be willing to let some DOA veterans try some of these early builds of DOA4 in order to give suggestions on what could be salvaged for DOA5?
Early versions of DOA4 we saw seemed very promising but something happened late in development that completely changed how the game played. Would you be willing to let some DOA veterans try some of these early builds of DOA4 in order to give suggestions on what could be salvaged for DOA5?
When the DOA Champions went to Japan to try out DOA Dimensions, Master was noted as saying that the community would come together when a new game would release. DOA Dimensions and that was not the case. The majority of the DOA community did not want to purchase a new console to play a slightly different version of DOA4, which was also generally disliked among the community. To attract an audience, the gameplay needs to be more reminiscent of DOA1, DOA++, DOA2 and DOA3. These were all great games and were very popular.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Had a closer look and can't find much to fault or change with the list. Great stuff! Here are a couple of comments.
4. Why does every move appear to stun, even on normal hit? Many American players feel that this was done to reduce the amount of natural combos, providing users more opportunities to hold out of critical state.
- This is no longer strictly the case in DOAD; not every move stuns and in fact jabs reset stun. This is worth examining before framing the question, or specifying the discussion is based on DOA4.
In any case I broadly agree, but wouldn't push for the stun system to be taken out or anything. It works well with the triangle system, it just needs to be rebalanced.
5. Why do you not let the user set the Computer AI in Sparring mode to perform a specific move from the move list? The player may want to train reaction times against a specific move or a specific move of a string. Additionally, why is there not an option to have the AI defensive hold while in critical state?
- I would add the Exercise mode should be reinstated as it was a fantastic feature for quickly learning the moves and put DOA well above other training modes (bar VF5)
Other - The wakeup kick system needs refinement, by lowering the range and shortening the invincibility of the kicks, while increasing recovery on block.
- On throws, it's important that DOA maintain its distinctive quality of blows beating throws, so while changing the number of offensive holds might seem like a good idea I think just making them better for grappler characters is the way to go.
Totally agree they need to have a full throw escape system.
- Sidestep point should be expanded upon a little to explain its benefit to the DOA system, or at least to indicate that some moves have a sidestep property included but the strict tracking of other moves makes them less useful. It would definitely make DOA a more strategic game
- Likewise, techniques such as Sabaki moves have been toyed with but not implemented well in DOA. This should be expanded upon and improved to counter high and mid level moves for mid sabakis, for example.
- It seems obvious, but useful new moves at all attack heights and effective ranges for all characters!
4. Why does every move appear to stun, even on normal hit? Many American players feel that this was done to reduce the amount of natural combos, providing users more opportunities to hold out of critical state.
- This is no longer strictly the case in DOAD; not every move stuns and in fact jabs reset stun. This is worth examining before framing the question, or specifying the discussion is based on DOA4.
In any case I broadly agree, but wouldn't push for the stun system to be taken out or anything. It works well with the triangle system, it just needs to be rebalanced.
5. Why do you not let the user set the Computer AI in Sparring mode to perform a specific move from the move list? The player may want to train reaction times against a specific move or a specific move of a string. Additionally, why is there not an option to have the AI defensive hold while in critical state?
- I would add the Exercise mode should be reinstated as it was a fantastic feature for quickly learning the moves and put DOA well above other training modes (bar VF5)
Other - The wakeup kick system needs refinement, by lowering the range and shortening the invincibility of the kicks, while increasing recovery on block.
- On throws, it's important that DOA maintain its distinctive quality of blows beating throws, so while changing the number of offensive holds might seem like a good idea I think just making them better for grappler characters is the way to go.
Totally agree they need to have a full throw escape system.
- Sidestep point should be expanded upon a little to explain its benefit to the DOA system, or at least to indicate that some moves have a sidestep property included but the strict tracking of other moves makes them less useful. It would definitely make DOA a more strategic game
- Likewise, techniques such as Sabaki moves have been toyed with but not implemented well in DOA. This should be expanded upon and improved to counter high and mid level moves for mid sabakis, for example.
- It seems obvious, but useful new moves at all attack heights and effective ranges for all characters!
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