DOA5U Bass General Discussion: Champion Edition

UncleKitchener

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I've noticed that after 6T, 2K can connect on a lot of characters and leaves you at frame advantage.

:kasumi: +1
:bradwong: +1
:mila: Whiffs
:helena: +1
:kokoro: +1
:bayman: 0
:christie: +1
:rig: +1
:jannlee: +1
:zack: +1 only when he decides to guard, otherwise it'll whiff normally
:ayane: +1
:hayabusa: +1
:eliot: +1
:tina: Whiffs
:lisa: +1
:akira: 0~+1
:alpha152: +1
:sarah: Whiffs.
:bass: 0
:leifang: +1
:hitomi: +1
:hayate: +1
:marierose: Whiffs since she's too small.
:momiji: Whiffs.
:genfu: +1
:pai: +1
:jacky: +1
:ein: +1
:rachel: Whiffs.
:leon: 0
:nyotengu: +1

So, basically, it whiffs on characters with straight stances.


I agree that more frame advantage gives you access to other options. But the move in discussion is 6T, which because of the distance, the +10 advantage is an illusion. the only reliable option is 33p.
I highly disagree. If that was the only option, you'd have people, certainly more people would've held mid or side stepped all day.

I still think 6T is one of her strongest tools because it turns a whole round around for me. I mean, yes, I get the range after you get after a throw isn't that amazing, but I gotta say it's fair, because it's pretty much the most furthest reaching 6i forward throw.

I still think it's underrated.

Edit: now that I think about it, you should still be able to achieve the same desired effect you want by just buffer a dash after the throw. That way you'll be close and have the frame advantage.
 
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UncleKitchener

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Okay, I've pretty much revamped the OP posts on the first page covering a lot of stuff with the exception of things like the blender and combos.

I feel like I might end up making another thread for combos too, but I don't have access to my console right now, so I'll have to wait for about two and a half weeks.

If anyone has some time, please do take time to proofread the first three posts in the thread any let me know if everything is in good order or not.

Also, @Rich Nixon , I think you can still get the intended results you want from :6::h::+::P: by just buffering in a dash. I think dashing is around 4-5 frames in total and you're going to end up with +5-6 still to apply your pressure.
 

Rich Nixon

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Okay, I've pretty much revamped the OP posts on the first page covering a lot of stuff with the exception of things like the blender and combos.

I feel like I might end up making another thread for combos too, but I don't have access to my console right now, so I'll have to wait for about two and a half weeks.

If anyone has some time, please do take time to proofread the first three posts in the thread any let me know if everything is in good order or not.

Also, @Rich Nixon , I think you can still get the intended results you want from :6::h::+::P: by just buffering in a dash. I think dashing is around 4-5 frames in total and you're going to end up with +5-6 still to apply your pressure.
I've been dashing after 6t and it gives up your advantage. But dashing can be used to bait holds and see how the opponent reacts.
 

Rich Nixon

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When the opponent tech rolls after 33pp, Bass' 9pp, 9pk, and _9pk hit meaty so no standard attack can beat it out. When they catch on and attempt to side-step, block, or hold, I neutral throw. It is fast enough to beat the sidestep after a free cancelled (and whiffed) 9p. When I don't wanna risk the throw, I've gotten great results with 9p(short delay)p into 3kp for a nice one guess CB!/throw mixup.
 
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UncleKitchener

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From my experience you can only cancel the dash with moves that dont begin with a 66 notation (e.g. p+k & 2p)
I just tested this and actually find this to be a viable tactic. Trick is you need to buffer a dash early enough so you can use that to get closer. This works on all characters and even allows you to use PK, 6P, 6K and all the short range pokes.

Trust me, do the dash early and test these all out. It works.

Good way to test and see if this works is to do the throw, buffer the dash and do 6P. Once you get that down, you can start against a dummy which does a jab on reaction.You'll still have enough frame advantage to counter hit any jab and also end up closer.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to fully incorporate this into my game.
 
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UncleKitchener

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XZero's post regarding :3::P::+::K::h::+::P: and made me want to test out some stuff in the Scramble stage;

These are all universal combo that work on everyone:
Usually, after a generator bounce, it's possible to do a re float :3::P: into normal air grab for good damage and position them either against the wall, or set them up for the beams. Problem is that this doesn't work on heavy characters.

:3::P::+::K::h::+::P: on the other hand does and does more damage than other options and puts your opponent's back to the generator again. Best thing about this is that it's universal, so no need to worry about weight classes.

In the lower level of the scramble stage, after a power blow, you can do any move to cause another bounce from the car (I personally prefer running :P:) and go for a :3::P::+::K::h::+::P:, which also works on all characters.

You can also get this combo in the sanctuary stage, but you have to be mindful of when to run in, which you have to do early after the bounce from the boulder.

This also work in The Tiger Show too, though I recommend experimenting with different weight classes with bounce in this stage as you can get a :3::P: into :3::P::+::K::h::+::P: on lights and meds while you might only get :3::P::+::K::h::+::P: on heavies.
 
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UncleKitchener

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Been experimenting with :41236::P::+::K: (DOA1 66P):

For 9i characters, you need to be at +1 to crush a jab and get into the -1 territory on hit, though most people don't realize this and stop doing things or go for another jab, which will whiff because on hit or on GB, you'll be pushed back into mid-range, which is where you can incorporate your mid-range pokes like :6::6::P::+::K:, :6::P::+::K:, :2::K:, :3::3::P:. etc.

For 10i characters, you can be at neutral 0 up to -3 frames and crush a jab. For some reason, some jabs can be crushed while other can't. For example, Ayane, LeiFang and Hitomi's jabs can't be crushed at anything less than neutral, while Busa, Ein and Jacky's can. This may be an issue of height, hitboxes, range and active frames. These examples with the exception of Ayane, have the same properties in terms of frame data (start up/active/recovery), but the height of each character determines whether you can crush a jab at certain frames or not. But all 10i jabs are guaranteed to be crushed at 0 frame neutral, but tall characters (mostly males) may have their jabs crushed even at -3 or -2.

Therefore, I have concluded that what determines whether a jab can be crushed in not only speed dependent, but height also comes into play. This may require testing against each character individually.

To cut a long story short; in neutral, you can crush a 10i jab with this move and 9i jabs at +1. This important fact about this move is that it's a high crush mid which is not :1::P::+::K: and therefore not reactable in neutral. Another important fact is that, all high highs can be crushed from the 3rd frame of :41236::P::+::K:.



Also, funny little bug I found: in practice mode, try to land this move twice on a dummy in quick succession. Usually this should work if you do it an even number of times, like 2 or 4, but usually this happens when a stance transition was not made properly before Bass does a :41236::P::+::K:.

Watch Bass do an instant stance transition on the spot ;)


Edit: WR :4::P::+::K::P: confirmed natural combo on BT opponents.
 
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UncleKitchener

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Okay, I should stop double posting, but I thought this might really interest people who just want to troll into BT and go for those mixups, specifically with :6::P::+::K:

As you may be aware, the BT transition with :6::P::+::K: is actually unsafe (-9), however, this is a string mixup which can only be jab interrupted by 9i jab characters, but there's not much guaranteed here, unless you going against Christie with her JAK, which you'd need to make use of BT low OH. But normally, a 9i jab is the only thing that can stop you, otherwise, anything slower than that (ie a 10i jab), cannot interrupt your string transitions. This makes this mixup a fairly decent tool if blocked because you can make it safe with :6::P::+::K::P:. Both string transitions are the same speed, so it pretty much comes down to a mid-high mixup if you're a 10i jabber.

In case you do end up doing :6::P::+::K: on block against a fast character, you can potentially crush with a low BT attack, like BT :1::K: or low OH, avoiding the jab. Otherwise, you're kinda okay.

Now, can some characters like GenFu actually crush both options? I don't know, but so far, I haven't seen such a thing yet.

Update: Interesting thing is that Genfu can crush :6::P::+::K::K: but not :6::P::+::K::P:. Yeah, I dunno how he can crush a mid but not a high.



Also, :P::K: string unholdable on normal hit (second hit can only be blocked) and also a natural combo on counter hit. This was new to me when I found out. I probably should've experimented more with this string.

BT :P::K: is holdable on normal hit, but again, it's a natural counter hit combo.


Edit: Updated the OP with the new info.
 
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UncleKitchener

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Funny Note:
:2::p+k::pause::p+k:

Even though it's -2 on guard, and can be free stepped...

If it's guarded Bass is put behind the opponent with his Back Turned to a Back-turned opponent.

BT :H+P: / :2::H+P: setup.

Now if only it wasn't 120 startup...
I've found that it's quite unreliable trying to set this move up in the first place, let alone capitalizing from it. Whether you'd be facing your opponent from or back is also character and range dependent, which makes it even more unreliable. You're better off just getting the +frames and going from there. To actually get into the BT mixup, you need to hit your opponent at 0 or negative frames, which imo is suicide.

I'd put the :2::P::+::K: transition moves on my top list of useless moves from Bass.
1) :4::6::P:
2) :7::P: and accompanying mixups
3) :4::h::+::K:
4) :2::P::+::K::P::+::K:
5) :2::P::+::K::P:

If they actually made the unblockable/mid transitions with the taunt startup eliminated, then he's actually have a decent long range set of tools for trying to get in. I mean, how slow is the unblockable? 25i? Dragon Kick is the same speed. The mid transition is even slower and more reactable.


Are you gonna be checking DOA5LR Bass at TFC?
 

UncleKitchener

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerbomb#Thunder_fire_powerbomb Turns out this thing actually exists (innovated by Onita).

Interesting thing regarding :8::h::+::P: after a pickup as any fast throw attempt would be snuffed by the jump in the animation. Interestingly, slow tier3 grabs (11i and 12i) do beat it, but this is definitely something to keep in mind when you have opponents who may go for this option if they do like to play the triangle system, especially if they think you've fallen into the habit. This option does lose to strikes however.

Also, full :41236::h::+::P: pretty awesome for mid-range catches for when people start their strings from, thinking they're some unstoppable badman. I strongly suggest using it, even against top players (everyone falls for it at least once).

Also a reminder that :6::h::+::P: dashbuffer should probably be used more often as it has improved my game with being able to pressure people more into making mistakes and that it's essential for the :6::h::+::P: loops anyway, so I think it would be very beneficial if people practice the dashbuffer into jabs to get a good feel of when to start pressing button and not too late to be beaten by other jabs. Also things like:6::P: works well even against 9i jabs. So yeah, I highly recommend it.

edit:
http://cs540106.vk.me/c625625/v625625689/5353/wK2LU8pgzCE.jpg
Sumo Bass coming soon
 
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