Character Matchup Discussion

[Allan Paris]

Also remember, nobody was really using "get in" by the end of the competitive game. People were all playing canadian by the end CGS season 2. When your success is measured by rounds and not matches you don't fuck around. So busa could run in with a 66k, but it'd just get blocked since all they were doing is circling while backing up for 99% of the match. Once you force the match at close range the advantage immediately goes to helena. Imagine the stress of dealing with her crushes as busa, while being at a disadvantage, while possibly getting thrown and put into the oki loop, or whatever.

Are you going to even have the balls to try and throw anything out when you know there is an overwhelming chance of it being blocked? It's seriously a staring match.

The difference is that if Busa does manage to knock her down, helena isn't gonna get looped over and over again. You can see where this just becomes a fucked up situation.

Yeah, thinking back when I was watching those matches, everybody played like that. Close range she can get under the skin more than he can, and playing how they were playing that's how games would end up going. I still don't see her being better than him, he can't freely roll on her, but he can deal with the lot of the things she has. With her oki game eveyone is a victim once they are caught in it, its still a 50/50, and haha it is crazy. Still, I can't believe that she is better because of that, it's not enoguh, and if I did try to believe that, 0i Izuna drops trumps all in any situation. Punches are the start of over the mass majority of things in this game and if it doesn't start with one, a punch is sure to follow. Ryu can strike at any moment taking life with ease. With Helena you'd have to work a little more than he does.

They are both stupid, and equally annoying. To me, he seems to have the upper hand on her, just a bit.

 

[Matt Ponton]

The only issue Helena has with her 50/50 oki game is that her bnb juggl causes knockback if the win off the oki was a launch. She has to work to get back in.

Unlike Bass' 3.1 Oki where you could technically put them right back in after a win from launch or throw.

 

[Rikuto]

Well if both players are being reckless or doing some online shit then yea, i think it's pretty even.

People don't really play like they did in CGS anymore, because even though it was higher level to do that shit... man it made the game fucking boring. It just showed how bad the game really was.

Still, it was higher level, and the point of tier lists is to reflect what people can do at the highest level possible. So, there ya go.

 

[DrDogg]

Glad someone fucking sees it. Yea, the last kasumi comment was half-sarcasm.

Also remember, nobody was really using "get in" by the end of the competitive game. People were all playing canadian by the end CGS season 2. When your success is measured by rounds and not matches you don't fuck around. So busa could run in with a 66k, but it'd just get blocked since all they were doing is circling while backing up for 99% of the match. Once you force the match at close range the advantage immediately goes to helena. Imagine the stress of dealing with her crushes as busa, while being at a disadvantage, while possibly getting thrown and put into the oki loop, or whatever.

Are you going to even have the balls to try and throw anything out when you know there is an overwhelming chance of it being blocked? It's seriously a staring match.

The difference is that if Busa does manage to knock her down, helena isn't gonna get looped over and over again. You can see where this just becomes a fucked up situation.

You're playing theory fighter. None of Helena's crushes are safe, while Busa's are. Also, Busa has a good number of attacks that Helena can't crush, and even more than she can only "crush" with BKO... which is risky against Busa. Not to mention Helena relies heavily on punches, which automatically favors Busa.

 

[Rikuto]

You're playing theory fighter.

I'm just calling back on all the shit I bore witness to and all the conversations I was having back then. High level DOA is nothing but theory fighter, shit like "you're unsafe and now im going to punish you" doesn't cut it. All the on-paper solid shit this game has is nothing but a slap on the wrist, you know that.

None of Helena's crushes are safe, while Busa's are.

Busa blocks, helena throws into the loop. helena probably wins round.

Busa blocks, helena gets punished for slap on the wrist damage. insignificant outcome.

Busa attempts to interrupt, gets a high counter blow launch on helena. No loop for busa, but significant enough damage and probably wins the round if he plays smart.

Busa attempts to interrupt, gets CH by helena and put into the loop. Probably loses the round.

Safety be damned, at the end of the day everything is a 50/50 and most of the outcomes involve helena winning in the long term.

Not to mention Helena relies heavily on punches, which automatically favors Busa.

Everyone is reliant on punches. Helena just happens to be able to alleviate some of that risk whenever she gets her loop going since busa can't counter on that first hit, which can make or break the whole thing.

 

[DrDogg]

But Helena's combo damage is low. There's no reason for Busa to take any BKO Throws. It's not a punish for anything an intelligent Busa will do and anything Busa does other than block will interrupt BKO Throw. If Helena attacks with a strike and Busa gets hit, the damage isn't big.

If Helena can't get BKO Throw off, she loses to Busa, and any smart Busa will know that's what the Helena player is going to go for. Plus, if Helena is at disadvantage, Busa can interrupt the BKO Throw and any crush she can do, while maintaining advantage to continue his assault.

 

[Rikuto]

If Helena can't get BKO Throw off, she loses to Busa, and any smart Busa will know that's what the Helena player is going to go for.

I see what you did there.

Nice

 

[Matt Ponton]

Granted, Manny's weakness has always been Helena.

 

[DrDogg]

Manny lost those matches because he wouldn't stop mashing... >_>

He got hit on wake-up about 52 times... in the first video alone. Then when he was up against the fake wall, he started blocking when the force tech setup doesn't even work there. >_>

 

[Raansu]

Carl is also an overall better player.

 

[Game Over]

MAN, that was funny to see in-person!

(no offense)

 

[Matt Ponton]

Manny lost those matches because he wouldn't stop mashing... >_>

He got hit on wake-up about 52 times... in the first video alone. Then when he was up against the fake wall, he started blocking when the force tech setup doesn't even work there. >_>

What you call 'mashing', I call 'guessing wrong... every time'.

 

[x Sypher x]

Yeah I kinda noticed some of his mistakes too. That match could have gone a whole lot better, too bad he pretty much got raped/demolished or what have you lol.

 

[Matt Ponton]

The other match I didn't post showed him switching to Gen Fu in the tournament, Carl was under his skin that much to make Manny switch from his own character.

 

[x Sypher x]

The other match I didn't post showed him switching to Gen Fu in the tournament, Carl was under his skin that much to make Manny switch from his own character.

Lol I remember seeing that too. It was rather interesting.

 

[TRI Mike]

Do we have a tier list for 4.1¿

 

[UncleKitchener]

Okay, Leon vs. everyone.

Discuss.

 

[Rikuto]

Leon pretty much shits on everyone except kasumi and genfu.

And yes, I just completely pulled that out of my ass.

No one besides myself ever bothered using leon, so I can only go on personal experience.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I'm just kind of upset too see that PL never once punished Busa's on block in any of the matches posted. It's a free low throw. I used to abuse the shit out of that against Busa players online back in the day, especially with Tengu since his is so damaging. I think they made it a little safer in Dimensions as I have trouble punishing it like I did back in the day.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Tengu's is faster than Helena's.

And manny was using the spacing to make it safe.