Competitive balance: DOA5U mechanics changes

[Saber]

The 4-point hold is fine. To me, 6-point holds are pushing the high risk/low reward factor too far, because the possibility of you getting Hi-Counter thrown is going to be MUCH higher.

Highs can be ducked/crushed. Lows can be tech jumped (although low-crushing is something DOA5 needs work on). Mids can only be evaded with Helena's BKH duck or moves similar to Sarah's Moonsault, and because it's a tool not every character has access too, it brings the necessity of a 4-point hold instead of three.

Making a good read is still making a guess, albeit an educated guess after deducing an opponent's playstyle and offensive/defensive pattern. Holding on REACTION is different and will never let you get HCT, because it's not a hold that was baited.

Holds don't need to be any more complex than they already are. The fact that they're even there is what makes DOA very psychologically intense, because it's all in the mindgames.

 

[grap3fruitman]

To me, 6-point holds are pushing the high risk/low reward factor too far, because the possibility of you getting Hi-Counter thrown is going to be MUCH higher.

This doesn't make any sense.

 

[Saber]

This doesn't make any sense.

In my head it did, but I was trying to emphasize on the high risk/ low reward factor and wanted to give an example, but couldn't think of a proper one.

 

[Crext]

The 4-point hold is fine. To me, 6-point holds are pushing the high risk/low reward factor too far, because the possibility of you getting Hi-Counter thrown is going to be MUCH higher.

I agree, but I don't think you read what I wrote correctly.

To sum up: You'd still have 4 point hold, but it allows for extra reward if you read it more correctly. Or alternately a minor penalty if you don't.

 

[Saber]

I agree, but I don't think you read what I wrote correctly.

To sum up: You'd still have 4 point hold, but it allows for extra reward if you read it more correctly. Or alternately a minor penalty if you don't.

That part I misread (apologies on my part), but in my opinion, the rewards for making the correct hold is fine as it is. You stop your opponent's attack flow, and the icing on the cake is getting damage from it.

Having 2 holds, each being able to hold high attacks regardless of status as a punch or kick, kind of ruins the point, since you'll still be getting a reward, the only difference being you have a little bit more icing.

Like I said, it's fine as it is.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Okay, you people want to fix an issue with the series but you're going about it in the most convoluted way and making it more of a clusterfuck than it already is. What's the big issue with holds? They're too prevalent and forgiving. How do you fix that? "Make it more convoluted but just as present!" Um, okay...

I don't expect them to make any significant changes to the hold system, at least, not the changes it needs. We'd be lucky if they brought the "critical burst" requirements down to E3 2012 levels.

That said they did patch DoA5 to become more competitive, and I expect they will do the same with DoA5U.

Yeah, like taking away characters' frame advantage and guaranteed set-ups. Competitive!

 

[crapoZK]

Instead of making holds ridiculously hard, TN could just reduce the active frames on them and or increase the recovery by 5 frames.

 

[HaJiN]

Seems you're late as well buddy, on two accounts anyway.

I'm not your buddy, and I am not late for anything. It's not like I am on FSD all day. In fact, I never even said you were late for anything. (So I don't know where you are getting this "as well" thing from.) You just didn't pay attention to the fact that the post was already answered, just as you were accusing me of not paying attention. I read the thread, and responded accordingly, so your argument makes no sense. Do me a favor and leave me the hell alone.

 

[Brute]

Just a friendly reminder that may help others: there is an "ignore" feature on this forum and it works quite well.

 

[TakedaZX]

I'm not your buddy, and I am not late for anything. It's not like I am on FSD all day. In fact, I never even said you were late for anything. (So I don't know where you are getting this "as well" thing from.) You just didn't pay attention to the fact that the post was already answered, just as you were accusing me of not paying attention. I read the thread, and responded accordingly, so your argument makes no sense. Do me a favor and leave me the hell alone.

Heh, like I said "buddy", looks like you were late too.

Its funny how everyone is jumping on Hajin and are correcting him relentlessly on the CB being a crumple. But yet they ignore the posts afterwards that already have corrected him. I think he gets it after all the corrections.

I only saw one correction. Didn't realize the post was that far back as well.

Old news. Chill out.

On the other subject, if Hold damage was increased... but the damage deal of landing a hold in stun still sticks, is it that big of an issue? Holding in stun is basically chip as it stands right now, and to really get good damage from holding in stun you have to land in on HCH.

I feel like it won't be an issue though personally, I just wish that the 5 frame increase on recovery was to all holds rather than just low holds.

 

[crapoZK]

Changing the topic, I think that jumping needs to get back into DOA5, or everybody gets a 8 or 9H+K and a 8 or 9P+K to make a jumping attack like Akira's jumping moves, because the low evasion needs to be worked upon on a whole.

Also, you should be able to SS in between blocking so you can bait whiff punishment, and not get caught in counter for trying to sidestep a NON TRACKING attack when they are rushing me with strings.

 

[Brute]

Changing the topic, I think that jumping needs to get back into DOA5, or everybody gets a 8 or 9H+K and a 8 or 9P+K to make a jumping attack like Akira's jumping moves, because the low evasion needs to be worked upon on a whole.

Also, you should be able to SS in between blocking so you can bait whiff punishment, and not get caught in counter for trying to sidestep a NON TRACKING attack when they are rushing me with strings.

I suppose. Honestly I'd rather have TN work on refining the crush attacks that are already in the game. I'm tired of jumping a meter high and being struck by a low sweep.

 

[HaJiN]

Heh, like I said "buddy", looks like you were late too.


Old news. Chill out.

You obviously are not understanding the point I am trying to make. and besides, what did I tell you? I sad leave me alone. you're distracting from the purpose of the thread. thanks. bye.

 

[HaJiN]

I suppose. Honestly I'd rather have TN work on refining the crush attacks that are already in the game. I'm tired of jumping a meter high and being struck by a low sweep.

That's exactly why I want to see the return of being able to do jumping punch and kick. Those were rarely crushed by low sweeps. It creates more mix ups for dealing with an opponent's wake up game.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Fellas, lol, just keep it in the PMs or ignore the other person. Let's keep the thread on it's focus.

 

[David Gregg]

I think their 4 point hold system in 5 is fine but I think there should be more punishment when a player incorrectly reads their opponent's move while in a stun (like maybe not even allow them to counter at all after that). It would sort of be like them having to choose their hold more carefully rather than try and counter every chance they get.

 

[TakedaZX]

You obviously are not understanding the point I am trying to make. and besides, what did I tell you? I sad leave me alone. you're distracting from the purpose of the thread. thanks. bye.

Ok lol. Bye.

On subject. Jumping attacks were more humorous to me than useful in the other DOA's I won't deny that they'd probably still be able to be more consistent than most crushes in this game. Only thing that really should happen is probably making them harder to do but not too hard. I know this isn't DOA4 full circle Raijin days but it still could be detrimental if it's too easy, accidents happen.

Maybe the SCV way, hold block then press up, up+forward, or up+back. Of course there's the issue of holds but I'm sure it can be worked out.

 

[HoodsXx]

As for me with wanting holds tweeked. I would like them to make it so that if tou hold wrong your only options are to block or SS. I don't like the fact that people can whiff a hold and hold again. Or whiff s hold (hold incorrectly) and hit buttons and still be able to beat the offensive player out. There needs to be a fine line between holds so they can't be spammed w/o thinking. Also with regards to throws. Dont know how you all feel about this but, if a player in my eyes is going to SE and either hold a move if they see it coming or block. And the other player decides to throw. The one IN STUN shouldn't be allowed to attack out of stun and HCH the one throwing they should be forced to fuzzy guard and/or duck and react accordingly imo. That's my thoughts on that.

 

[David Gregg]

As for me with wanting holds tweeked. I would like them to make it so that if tou hold wrong your only options are to block or SS. I don't like the fact that people can whiff a hold and hold again. Or whiff s hold (hold incorrectly) and hit buttons and still be able to beat the offensive player out. There needs to be a fine line between holds so they can't be spammed w/o thinking.

Agreed! And I feel like I shouldn't be punished when I successfully put my opponent in a stun b/c they know that I have to attack (eliminates the rock paper scissor mechanics) so they're going to try and either 1) quickly try to recover and block, 2) read what I'm going to do and pick the right counter or 3) spam the shit out of the hold button as often as possible in the chance that they'll counter me.

 

[TRI Mike]

What the hell happened here!¿