Gill Hustle
Well-Known Member
Can't remember where I said it but, Ayane DOES have her Hooligan air throw when she runs.
Dead or Alive 5 Alpha Demo System and Character Discussions
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Hayabusa's attack that leads to this stun doesn't seem all that useful, which is disappointing. However, the fact that there are more of these is promising. It would be outstanding if you could work your offense around these stuns and avoid the normal stuns entirely.
As for the counter hold window, on paper I'd like to see 5/10/20. However, I'd need to play with holds like that to see if it actually fixes the problem. Basically, there should be a proper risk/reward ratio to holds. Maybe holds that launch have more recovery and less active frames, while holds that inflict less damage have a longer window and shorter recovery? It'd also be nice if you can't hold for a set amount of frames after executing an attack... more so if the attack whiffs.
I basically want to be able to apply offensive pressure and whiff punish without the fear of losing 30-50% due to a hold.
As for the counter hold window, on paper I'd like to see 5/10/20. However, I'd need to play with holds like that to see if it actually fixes the problem. Basically, there should be a proper risk/reward ratio to holds. Maybe holds that launch have more recovery and less active frames, while holds that inflict less damage have a longer window and shorter recovery? It'd also be nice if you can't hold for a set amount of frames after executing an attack... more so if the attack whiffs.
I basically want to be able to apply offensive pressure and whiff punish without the fear of losing 30-50% due to a hold.
That's a funny date...
I think I'd like the active window to be even tighter than 10 frames but, in order for that to not be broken, we'd need to remove the ability to delay strings so much. Maybe give it to certain characters on certain moves but not keep it in its current state.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Delayable strings I wouldn't want to mess with, it's a great part of smart play and adds interesting variation to existing moves within a reasonable frame of time. They could probably come up with an intuitive relationship between frames of delay possible, or chargeup, and the amount of recovery on holds.
MeanMrMustard
Active Member
I think 10 is a little short for a game where you have to have the correct hit level, unlike other fighters where the criteria is just "highs and mids" or "punches". 12 Seems to be right, with maybe 10 like you said for advanced holds since you get so much more damage. I don't want the counter to be completely useless, and it seems like they are on the right track by not allowing you to hold out of stuns until a certain frame. Not sure how I feel about being able to SE then hold, but I haven't played yet so I'll reserve judgement.
Also, don't you guys think it's a bit early to be talking about balance? The game is in alpha state and we have only seen 4 characters so far. Who knows what tools the rest of the cast will have. What if you all cry for Hayabusa nerfs, and then other characters have just as good if not better tools and he ends up being fine? Let's wait for the game to A LEAST be closer to release to talk about balance.
Also, don't you guys think it's a bit early to be talking about balance? The game is in alpha state and we have only seen 4 characters so far. Who knows what tools the rest of the cast will have. What if you all cry for Hayabusa nerfs, and then other characters have just as good if not better tools and he ends up being fine? Let's wait for the game to A LEAST be closer to release to talk about balance.
First of all, I've been crying for Hayabusa nerfs since the day DOA2U went online, and even then I'm not so much asking for him to be nerfed but moreso for the cast to be buffed to his level. Right now in the demo though, you could technically classify him as a grappler, a striker, and a holder due to his grappler speeds, his striker juggles and attacks, and his damage from holds. Even then, for the purpose of this demo I'm happy they showed off the grappler changes through some character: Lower required launch height to air throw, 4i neutral throw, etc.
That being said, although yes I do agree a "tier list" of an alpha demo with less than 20% of the total cast is quite pointless. However, Team NINJA is even asking for your opinion on the balance of the demo in the online submission form. Now, I think it's also pointless to be claiming what the balance is - less than two days after the demo releases and some countries still haven't received it yet.
It's indicative of the game's final release where you are going to have people on day 1 asking for a tier list.
Team NINJA's been pretty quiet on their designs - in part because they're still trying to decide what they can do to the system. I know if they would have come out after the cliffhanger reveal and said "Yes, the falling player can press
to catch the ledge and from there has the option of or , where both players fall to the bottom without taking damage if the falling player guesses right. The falling player takes less damage when guessing wrong than they would if the falling player didn't catch the ledge." Instead we received "Hayabusa could turn the tide on Hayate." with no context given.Merely coincidence.
N0rdicNinja
Active Member
Man I can't wait to get back from travel, reading up on everything without being able to play is torture!
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Assuming I write the guide again, I will post a tier list on day one for those interested, but it will come with heavy disclaimers.
MeanMrMustard
Active Member
You need a co-writer on that guide? ;-)
It would be nice if TN commissioned the guys who did the SCV guide to do one for DOA5.
MeanMrMustard
Active Member
Why would you want Soul Calibur players to make the guide for DOA5? I'd much prefer someone like Dr. Dogg who knows and understands the game to someone who plays another game and would most likely not know how to approach the DOA series.
That's not what I meant. I meant that the publishers should publish the guide since pretty much everything they do is well worth buying.
Jeez, everybody needs a hint these days.
Jeez, everybody needs a hint these days.
MeanMrMustard
Active Member
A hint? Your post was very vague. Maybe you should just not assume that people can read minds and be more specific with your writing. From your post it looks as if you want the people who wrote the SC5 guide to write the DOA5 guide.
Master_Thespian
Active Member
Yeah, Future Press puts out sexy guides.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
The DOA guide will be solid, but if you're requesting hardcover, I don't think that will happen. I was surprised SC5 got the hardcover treatment to be honest.
The problem with the Future Press SC5 guide is that it was written by good players and not good writers. There's solid information in the guide, but finding it is a big pain. For example, why are the characters in select screen order instead of alphabetical order? I can't find any character spreads unless I go back to the table of contents, flip through the entire book, or have a bookmark on the character. FP should've added one real writer to the staff and the guide would've been near perfect.
I think I would also prefer softcover to hardcover, but that's more so for ease of transport than anything else.
The problem with the Future Press SC5 guide is that it was written by good players and not good writers. There's solid information in the guide, but finding it is a big pain. For example, why are the characters in select screen order instead of alphabetical order? I can't find any character spreads unless I go back to the table of contents, flip through the entire book, or have a bookmark on the character. FP should've added one real writer to the staff and the guide would've been near perfect.
I think I would also prefer softcover to hardcover, but that's more so for ease of transport than anything else.
Gill Hustle
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I'd throw this out if you do get to write the guide , can we possibly have a blank frame data write in space?
I do like supporting well written guides, however online updates make them worthless a MONTH AFTER the game was released?!
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
I was pissed that I bought a $20 guide only for a month later hit properties and, frame changes >.<
Doa5 uses a hybrid juggling system of both Doa3.1 and Doa4.1. The height levels of a launch are now between both Doa3.1 and doa4.1.
- In stun launches are Doa4.1 style.
- Normal Launchers are a mix between 3.1/4.1.
- Counter strike(blow) launches are 3.1 style.
- High Counter Blow launches are 3.1 style.
x Sypher x
Active Member
That is so funny because I mentioned that same idea once haha. This is all very interesting stuff though, good shit man.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Can you be more detailed? Frame data is comprised of several large tables for each character. With ~25 characters and so many moves per character, I can't see having all of that doubled so you have a blank table large enough for all of the frame data.
What does this mean?
Also, the defensive player still gets two chances to mess up. They messed up the first time when they got put in the stun. Add launchers that ignore holds completely and then defenders only get one chance.
In addition, how many launchers do most characters have? Can you still low counter to avoid a high attack? These are all issues that will still be relevant even if the defender only gets two chances to mess up (which is one too many).