Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Updated OP.
Dead or Alive 5 Helena
- Thread starter Omegan Eckhart
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Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
She has a few 3in1's.
@DrDogg When you land CB with 7P is there time to enter BKO and do 66P for the launch? Alternatively is there a better launch to use after landing CB?
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
All of the neutral stance launchers she has... why would you want to go into BKO and launch from there...? o_0
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
66P from BKO gives the best launch, or at least it did in DOA4. Is that no longer the case? I did notice 7K is a lot easier to combo off of now.
I would most likely be going for a fully charged 66KPP after a CB launch and you can't do it off of 8K, 7K and 9K is two hits and only one hit is guaranteed... unless they cannot counter the second hit in DOA5 like you could in DOA4. That only leaves P+K and I don't see it launching that well.
If I'm forgetting a launcher lemme know.
I didn't play 4 so forgive me if these launchers were absent in that game, but she also has 4K, 33P, 3P+K, and 8P. Also, I'm pretty sure you can't launch with 9K after a CB anyways since it's the second kick that actually launches and not the first. If you hit the opponent with any move that isn't a launcher after a CB they just fall to the ground.
Did she get 66PKP back, or is it still that palm attack thing? If she got that string back, 66P launches as well.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
4K - True I forgot that one.
33P - It's an okay launcher if you land the second punch, the launch off of the first hit is pretty lousy though.
3P+K - That attack was removed and given to Kokoro, 3P+K is now what 236P was before.
8P - Similar to 33P, there is now a second high on the string that launches but the first hit doesn't launch well.
9K - The first hit can launch but the second hit cause them to flip and remove any combo opportunity.
66PKP - This move is now 236PKP, the first high punch launches okay, but the free cancel recovery on the punch is fairly long so doing a combo off of it is not very practical.
Reading your post make me want to go back and play DOA3 haha.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Gravity is different in DOA5. You can't even get 66KPP off BKO throw.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
In DOA4 you could only connect the 66K from BKO grab right? The PP would miss. Or are you talking about when using the grab near a wall?
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Anywhere... although I haven't tried it in the final build outside of BKO throw... which was unchanged. The gravity is still a bit wonky though. Takes some getting used to... or maybe I'm just not used to juggling with anything other than PP2KP lol.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Ah I gotcha, yeah from the BKO grab mid screen the K would connect just as they landed causing a force tech, a very crappy force tech lol
So if we land a BKO grab in the corner or against a wall do any of our old juggles work?
* 4P2P 6P4PPK?
* P F 66KPP?
* P F P F PP2KP?
Ah thanks for all of that. She really has changed a bit. That bit about 33P really surprised me, as it's the exact opposite in 3.1. 33P is amazing, but if you get that second P you're screwed since she can't juggle off of it.
And yeah, you can clearly tell which game I'm most familiar with haha. One last question. I assume she has the DOA 4 version of P+K, so what's the old P+K now (if she still has it)?
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
It is the same attack in both versions (in DOA4 the animation is different, she spins and ducks down whilst doing it), because of this it crushes all highs and most mid attacks (it was basically a DP lol) where as in DOA3 it didn't crush anything it was just a slow mid attack. When she was first revealed in DOA5 they had removed all crush properties from it but they eventually gave it back the ability to crush highs.
This is how low she goes now, you can see why it went under almost everything.
It's a shame you missed out on DOA4, Helena was a monster
This is how low she goes now, you can see why it went under almost everything.
It's a shame you missed out on DOA4, Helena was a monster
Ah ok. I assume she still has the same followup from P+K? Yeah I didn't really play 4, but I've seen Mamba and Dr. Dogg use her. Helena and Tina are my characters, and it looks like I'm going to have to re-learn their movelists a bit since they both seemed to have changed a bunch, but it's all good. After reading what Dr. Dogg has been saying, it seems like she plays a little bit like her 3.1 self, but minus all of the awesome movement and some other stuff that made her good haha. It looks like some old setups still work though, so I'll take what I can get. Thanks for the info!
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
You'll have fun, her move list from 3 to 4 is similar just with different string paths added on. She has launchers out the ass and she has multiple variants to all of her strings. If she gets them stunned and they guess wrong once they will most likely be in the air by the time they can counter again. Oh and P+K has the same follow up.
Anyway your welcome for the info.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
It was useful on block though, condition your opponent to try and throw punish after the first hit, do the second hit and BOOM! huge ground bounce.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Her P+K is a high crush again, even beats some mids.
Her 3 in 1s are vital to her stun game
Her sidestep kick can be cancelled into bokuho. Super good tool, since you're basically option selecting to evade almost every move in the entire game. Side step beats linear attacks and mids that hit bikuho, her bokuho beats all mids and highs.
qcb doesn't grant much in terms of sit down stun guarantees as far as I can see
loss of pp2k is not as severe as once though. her ppk gets the job done
absolute moster on water her 2 f+k keads into trip stun
Overall she's pretty solid, don't plan on finiishing strings with her, evades like a mofo, stun game is her bff, etc. . .
Her 3 in 1s are vital to her stun game
Her sidestep kick can be cancelled into bokuho. Super good tool, since you're basically option selecting to evade almost every move in the entire game. Side step beats linear attacks and mids that hit bikuho, her bokuho beats all mids and highs.
qcb doesn't grant much in terms of sit down stun guarantees as far as I can see
loss of pp2k is not as severe as once though. her ppk gets the job done
absolute moster on water her 2 f+k keads into trip stun
Overall she's pretty solid, don't plan on finiishing strings with her, evades like a mofo, stun game is her bff, etc. . .
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
So.... what you're trying to say is that there is no need to worry about Helena ?
How are her transitions to BKO ?
Can you list quite of her new moves ?
(I've seen a lot of her ppk doing great in videos, I've never liked pp2k anyway, like TN, i think it was really cheap, so I'm glad it's gone).
How are her transitions to BKO ?
Can you list quite of her new moves ?
(I've seen a lot of her ppk doing great in videos, I've never liked pp2k anyway, like TN, i think it was really cheap, so I'm glad it's gone).
DR2K
Well-Known Member
She has numerous was to get in bokuho. She's a 0 when her 3in1 is blocked, she can do it from side step k, her side step P is a sitdown stun easily her best one,her bt b p k puts her in bokuho and grants her a ground bounce.
She doesn't have a lot of new moves, just a shit ton of old strings redone/new animations and with different properties. She does have lots of new ways to get into bokuho from old stirngs
her bt throw and qcb throw give her some guaranteed options, very good moves.
She feels like a brand new character to me.