DarkShadeXZero
Member
Well I did say whatever becomes final so it's not like you can't give feedback along the way but I do appreciate your response.
DOA5U Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate Arcade ver. 1.04 change log
- Thread starter Haipa Sonikku
- Start date
I've said this on one of my posts in the status updates but ill say it here. Bebop, an online frined of mine has a friend down in Japan whom he knows personally. She said that in the Arcade Version of DOA5U you can slow-escape on block. Basically, if a move is lets say -5, you can make that move -7 if you slow-escape on block. Supposedly, it was in DOA4 and DOA5 but no one really used it. Im still wondering whether this will be added in DOA5U or not.
RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
So basically, I can never know if I'm safe on block or not because some asshole can reduce his blockstun by mashing buttons like a retard. This sounds so dumb I don't want to believe TN would actually consider this.
Its only by like 2 frames, and they probably have to wiggle the stick like a madman
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
That's good to hear.. Although, I personally never had that problem. When I use 2F+K it always came out as 2F+K.
I can also live with the change, but I wouldn't call that change decent at all. Some things that Team Ninja does, simply don't make sense.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, but as I said in my post - the game length is only one part of the issue. I note 5 hours because thats the length of the broadcast, they did stuff around before matches began. Matches tend not to time out, even on tournament standard 60 seconds. But watching matches, It's still too long compared to other games, making TO's wary of DOA for tournaments and streaming. Why do we have to run 2/3 when VF can run 3/5? Rounds take too long.
But putting aside the time factor the more important factor is balance and feel of the game.
More people need to test 240 against a variety of opponents. Play a round robin at the next offline gathering, etc. It's a real improvement. Team Ninja should test it out.
I appreciate that 300 in DOA5U is more palatable than DOA5, Its something people have gotten used to. People who play other FG's notice there's still a problem though, and simply, it could be faster, sharper, more solid, more dynamic, more DOA-like!
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Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
I'd say because you play pad. They still have kind of "mushy" inputs, thinking it benefits pad players. On stick, this problem is more prevalent.
Such as when you are free walking, or already crouching and if you tip the stick into 1 or 3, not straight 2, it can come out as standing. This correction is a good thing.
@EMPEROR_COW on a different topic - you had a BIG problem with the control method for STAGGER ESCAPE with DOA5U - have you given feedback for them to change this? I'd agree it would be better (esp for stick players) if it was "shake" again.
That and general movement speed improvements are needed.
Commenting on these small tweaks is a bit misguiding around the bigger picture of what the game can be, IMHO.
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RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
Two frames is a lot. The point is I need to know how much advantage or disadvantage I'm at to decide the proper offense or defense and with this I would not be able to know, only approximate. If I do a move that is -5 on block, I would fuzzy guard afterwords. With this, the disadvantage changes to approximately -7 which gets me thrown. How about if I use a move that leaves me at +1? Now that move would be negative. The worst thing is that I can't even know how much it changed, leaving everything completely random.
P1naatt1ke1tt0
Active Member
I agree, I really don't like the idea of SEing blockstun. Good points RoboJoe.
Thats the thing though... im assuming it only works if the move is - on block.
RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter. Depending on how negative a move is, changes what happens next. Safe moves suddenly become unsafe. Now I can get throw punished for something that I'm not supposed to be throw punished for. Also, it's random so I can't even plan for it.
True... i agree with you that it may seem stupid. But i'm curious on how this would work. Anyone have the vanilla copy of DOA5 and can test this right now? Joe, can you test this?
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
Time to put some things into perspective, regarding the Leifang change in V1.04, of 2K from crouching to standing. She lost a great tool. It was one of her best defensive moves when expecting a high from the opponent, but still trying to play it a bit safe. If you get the counter hit, you get a decent advantage, if the opponent just stands and blocks, you're at only -6, giving them only a breakable throw. It's the only viable low she had for up close combat. This is what she has now, all with fastest stagger escape:
Leifang, 2K, (15 frame low kick, no tracking)
NH: -6, 10 dmg
CH: +12, 22 dmg
HCH: +12, 25 dmg
After the change, you have to resort to the unsafe moves like 66K (-12 on block), 3P+K (-15), 1P (-11), 4P (if it actually crushes the high), or the crappy lows that are 2P and 2F+K, to try and beat high attacks. Wait what? 2F+K crappy? YES. Here's why.
Leifang, 2F+K, (20 frame low kick, no tracking)
NH: +6, 20 dmg (up close)
NH: -10, 10 dmg (far away)
CH: +6, 25 dmg (up close)
CH: -10, 16 dmg (far away)
HCH: +6, 30 dmg (up close)
HCH: -10, 16 dmg (far away)
And here's 2P (15 frames, no tracking):
NH: +0, 5 dmg
CH: +0, 6 dmg
HCH: +0, 7 dmg
One can easily see the benefit of 2K here. It's fast and very useful on counter blow. The others, not so much. People have been saying they found it weird that Busa and Fu got their 2K to standing position in prior DOA5U, while Leifang didn't. It actually makes sense that way. Why? Because Busa and Fu have other lows to compensate at least partially. They both have a genius 1P that trumps their 2K. Let me demonstrate. All are at fastest stagger escape.
Busa, 1P (16 frame low punch, tracks)
NH: -7, 18 dmg
CH: +10, 22 dmg
HCH: +10, 27 dmg
Gen Fu, 1P (18 frame low punch, tracks)
NH: -3, 20 dmg
CH: +15, 25 dmg
HCH: +15, 30 dmg
They might not be 15 frames, but they are still fast enough, they track, they do more damage, and they give superior advantage compared to Leifang's lows. Do they need 2K? Not really. Does Leifang? Seems like it, don't you think?
Leifang, 2K, (15 frame low kick, no tracking)
NH: -6, 10 dmg
CH: +12, 22 dmg
HCH: +12, 25 dmg
After the change, you have to resort to the unsafe moves like 66K (-12 on block), 3P+K (-15), 1P (-11), 4P (if it actually crushes the high), or the crappy lows that are 2P and 2F+K, to try and beat high attacks. Wait what? 2F+K crappy? YES. Here's why.
Leifang, 2F+K, (20 frame low kick, no tracking)
NH: +6, 20 dmg (up close)
NH: -10, 10 dmg (far away)
CH: +6, 25 dmg (up close)
CH: -10, 16 dmg (far away)
HCH: +6, 30 dmg (up close)
HCH: -10, 16 dmg (far away)
And here's 2P (15 frames, no tracking):
NH: +0, 5 dmg
CH: +0, 6 dmg
HCH: +0, 7 dmg
One can easily see the benefit of 2K here. It's fast and very useful on counter blow. The others, not so much. People have been saying they found it weird that Busa and Fu got their 2K to standing position in prior DOA5U, while Leifang didn't. It actually makes sense that way. Why? Because Busa and Fu have other lows to compensate at least partially. They both have a genius 1P that trumps their 2K. Let me demonstrate. All are at fastest stagger escape.
Busa, 1P (16 frame low punch, tracks)
NH: -7, 18 dmg
CH: +10, 22 dmg
HCH: +10, 27 dmg
Gen Fu, 1P (18 frame low punch, tracks)
NH: -3, 20 dmg
CH: +15, 25 dmg
HCH: +15, 30 dmg
They might not be 15 frames, but they are still fast enough, they track, they do more damage, and they give superior advantage compared to Leifang's lows. Do they need 2K? Not really. Does Leifang? Seems like it, don't you think?
RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
No can do, my vanilla copy is packed away in a box. Someone should check though, I have a hard time believing it's real, regardless of what your friend said.
Same here... never heard of this tactic so im curious as to whether its actually a tactic lol. She knows her stuff though, but for all i know, its a myth.
I don't believe it's in there, but it was a 'feature' as far back as DOA2U. You could stagger escape your blocked wake-up kick to decrease it's disadvantage on guard, it still was punishable regardless, and in practice you just rarely would have the time to stagger on guard.
I haven't seen anything in DOA5 to suggest it's returned, but can't say I honestly attempted more than once or twice to check it.
I haven't seen anything in DOA5 to suggest it's returned, but can't say I honestly attempted more than once or twice to check it.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
And here's this old chestnut:
Make Sit Down Stuns (and/or similar unholdables) non-staggerable, and just adjust their frames to suit the right follow ups. Make some true combos with these. It would be a good move for consistency.
You know to go for the sit down stun, the opponent knows to stop it. If you hit it, you know what you can go for, not what might randomly hit or miss if the opponent SE's fast enough.
Make Sit Down Stuns (and/or similar unholdables) non-staggerable, and just adjust their frames to suit the right follow ups. Make some true combos with these. It would be a good move for consistency.
You know to go for the sit down stun, the opponent knows to stop it. If you hit it, you know what you can go for, not what might randomly hit or miss if the opponent SE's fast enough.
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
I hate the fact that mashing face buttons somehow translates into SEing. It really, really pisses me off.
They should revert it to being a stick only maneuver. It's meant to take practice, not just be mashed out. I SE with the stick while fuzzy-guarding once I'm out, and it's absurd to think that the time it took me to nail that habit down as well as do it correctly is almost nullified by people bashing their faces on their controller.
I may be one of the few who feels that way, but ugh, please change SEs back to what they once were.
They should revert it to being a stick only maneuver. It's meant to take practice, not just be mashed out. I SE with the stick while fuzzy-guarding once I'm out, and it's absurd to think that the time it took me to nail that habit down as well as do it correctly is almost nullified by people bashing their faces on their controller.
I may be one of the few who feels that way, but ugh, please change SEs back to what they once were.
i could've swore that they changed it to where you couldn't hit buttons to SE?
I seem to have gotten around it via muscle memory .. I still shake .. sometime do circles .. I dont really think about it while playing so much. I just do it now
Btw, gonna do a bit more testing ... I dunno if I can record but I'll try.. last time they told me to turn off the cam
