DOA5U Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate Arcade ver. 1.04 change log
- Thread starter Haipa Sonikku
- Start date
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Command reception appears to refer to the input, so they have improved the way the game reads the input. I expect that's to make the move come out more cleanly, more often.
Overall, there are very few changes of significance to the characters. The nerfs are not painful and the buffs are subtle. There is a a reasonable mix of both.
I think they are overall a bit over cautious with changes, especially since they have a test environment ready to go. There were some nerfs to guaranteed damage situations (Kokoro's stance) that weren't necessary, and hopefully they roll back.
I'm more concerned that there is a trend to reduce or keep strikes the same, but increase damage on throws. Throws are already good punishment. The balance between effectiveness of strikes vs throws or counters is already too high for throws/counters, so poking and small combos have very little meaning.
Even a long stun extend combo does not typically match a critical hold or HC Throw. I would rather see life and counter damage reduced, and overall life setting lowered, to give strikes more prominence. This gives striking characters better options from small combos and poking, and grapplers strikes are more threatening, creating more opportunity (fear of strikes) for throwing.
I'd have liked to see crouching, dash, crouch dash speeds improved and crouch dashing from sidestep improved, to add to the defensive options of the neutral game, while reducing some tracking. It's a bit of a back and forth slugfest without these options.
Overall no big objections though.
Character specific for me - Lei Fang, decent, minimal changes, can live with the 2K change and the more reliable input of 2H+K should help that. She still isn't great with lows, her crushes are unsafe, so how low strike game is average, but her string was made safer. Pretty good. What she really needs is another string follow up to 3K and she'd be great.
- Bass, that BT throw should be an OH, and there was no problem with its advantage before; good opponents would duck/low counter that setup regularly, so it wasn't "free" damage. He still needs one of his pokes to be faster to press for advantage, but overall looking ok.
Overall, there are very few changes of significance to the characters. The nerfs are not painful and the buffs are subtle. There is a a reasonable mix of both.
I think they are overall a bit over cautious with changes, especially since they have a test environment ready to go. There were some nerfs to guaranteed damage situations (Kokoro's stance) that weren't necessary, and hopefully they roll back.
I'm more concerned that there is a trend to reduce or keep strikes the same, but increase damage on throws. Throws are already good punishment. The balance between effectiveness of strikes vs throws or counters is already too high for throws/counters, so poking and small combos have very little meaning.
Even a long stun extend combo does not typically match a critical hold or HC Throw. I would rather see life and counter damage reduced, and overall life setting lowered, to give strikes more prominence. This gives striking characters better options from small combos and poking, and grapplers strikes are more threatening, creating more opportunity (fear of strikes) for throwing.
I'd have liked to see crouching, dash, crouch dash speeds improved and crouch dashing from sidestep improved, to add to the defensive options of the neutral game, while reducing some tracking. It's a bit of a back and forth slugfest without these options.
Overall no big objections though.
Character specific for me - Lei Fang, decent, minimal changes, can live with the 2K change and the more reliable input of 2H+K should help that. She still isn't great with lows, her crushes are unsafe, so how low strike game is average, but her string was made safer. Pretty good. What she really needs is another string follow up to 3K and she'd be great.
- Bass, that BT throw should be an OH, and there was no problem with its advantage before; good opponents would duck/low counter that setup regularly, so it wasn't "free" damage. He still needs one of his pokes to be faster to press for advantage, but overall looking ok.
Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
Zack is a Striking/Grappler 40% strikes and 60% throws. He's supposed to be molly whopping most of the cast but Idk what TN has in store for him..
Ok thanks man for the clarification, yeah i noticed i'd get H6K with Jacky every one in awhile knowing damn well i didn't do H6K.
Haipa Sonikku
Active Member
I'd go to Team Ninja twitter for that. Zack might indeed be the least popular character played and they have the usage data to prove it so let 'em know what's up.
D Glock
Well-Known Member
the game feels very much the same. but the adjustment to Lei's 2H+K input really was a great fix .. you no longer get standing H+K by mistake if you press the input too fast or too slow ..
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Thats what I expected, so it confirms "command reception" means they are fixing the input. I hated getting standing HK while holding 1 out of a free walk into low poke. Good news.
So you're still in Japan, the changes seem minor, that's your take?
I hope you give feedback on undoing the few significant buffs like Kokoro's guaranteed stance hit was fine, Bass BT throw should be OH and its advantage was fine... overall the effective tools should stay effective. The "OP" stuff has already been dealt with.
Now, if we can just get those movement speeds increased, and hold/counter damage and overall life setting reduced for a faster more balanced overall game.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
This is what I've been saying ever since Ultimate came out.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Well I tend to agree, and I've called for more people to test 240 because even with counter and throw damage being so high, it still improves the game significantly to use it.
I had a range of matches recorded to help illustrate the testing, but had some trouble with the files. Will have to try again later.
Too bad TN isn't testing this at the arcade! I think they're crazy not to... shorter rounds, more credits.
about bass ... Shinbori says sorry @Mr. Wah and that hes gonna fix it back to the way it was .. lol ..
normal throw with the same frames ...
no OH ..
that is what you guys agreed on ... right ?
Changes are very minor and they all seem to make perfect sense.
About the life changes ... I dont know about you guys but you seem to be playing a totally different game ... the game's damage is more than fine at 300 and the rounds end really quick. Even Matt agreed when he came to Japan. Theres no need for any damage reduction.
normal throw with the same frames ...
no OH ..
that is what you guys agreed on ... right ?
Changes are very minor and they all seem to make perfect sense.
About the life changes ... I dont know about you guys but you seem to be playing a totally different game ... the game's damage is more than fine at 300 and the rounds end really quick. Even Matt agreed when he came to Japan. Theres no need for any damage reduction.
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Saber
Well-Known Member
Except that they don't. They're so minor that they're just PATCHES FOR THE SAKE OF PATCHING.
My main problem is really the fact that they're so minor and abysmal that we shouldn't even have them in the first place. And by "them" I mean nerfs specifically. Any buffs to anyone is welcome indefinitely, but the nerfs are a big fat no. Everyone's been nerfed enough as it is.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
IMO there are several characters that need to be "Fixed back to the way they were". Not just a single character because one person plays him offline competitively.
Minor eh? I wouldn't call the adjusted re-float height of Hayabusa's 33P the nerfed damage of Rig's Combo Throw, the nerfed damage of Jacky's combos, and the change to Jann Lee's 6P back to 11f " Minor ".
Ivan Osorio
Active Member
They ALL seem to make PERFECT sense? Really?
I don't discredit you, specially since I got no credit here or anywhere, but that just seems improbable. I'm not taking you up on semantics though. It is one thing for Ein to have general damage buffs in a great quantity of his moves. It is another, for example, to have Jacky:
- 2_3P: Damage reduced from 20 to 19.
- 6K: Damage increased from 20 to 21.
Like... What? Does this accomplish anything? (seriously, I'm asking.)
Obviously, I'm just taking these two moves; he had other changes, other damage buffs that were more significant than the ones I picked, I acknowledge that, but they are mostly so marginal it is hard to believe they make a difference.
In general, I agree if TRI Mike and Berzerk!. Instead of doing these microscopic damage buffs, do something with the overall life value. I do believe the standard to be too high, and for my own enjoyment will always play the game in 240. But then again, maybe this qualifies as "playing a different game" than you.
I'm not b*tching about a slight buff, I just wanted to understand what sprung some of these changes. Some were definitely called for. Some... well, weren't.
I don't think this is the worst patch ever for anything, but a good chunk of it looks like "stuff". Like: "let's move some numbers around". I will give it that I'm looking forward to the hitbox adjustments and increased speed in crouch blocking. Some good stuff here, some good buffs for characters that could definitely use them. Interesting adjustments to frame data as well. Any changes in the area of -8 and -5 are always important. Not everything is bad, but not everything is good and happy either.
If you can spare the time, enlighten us about what these changes actually mean in play, and since you had first hand experience.
Jesus Christ MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MINDS, PLEASE TN. FUCK.
Also, I didn't hear about any "agreements", I just want something new now. Getting tired of all this pointless back and forth.
Also, to anyone who think all Bass players do is go into BT just to force a 50/50 mix-up, no, even semi-decent players don't do that. It's incredibly risky and and ends up biting you up in the ass.
I'd like to see some originality now. Give him something worthwhile.
Also, I didn't hear about any "agreements", I just want something new now. Getting tired of all this pointless back and forth.
Also, to anyone who think all Bass players do is go into BT just to force a 50/50 mix-up, no, even semi-decent players don't do that. It's incredibly risky and and ends up biting you up in the ass.
I'd like to see some originality now. Give him something worthwhile.
wait till you get your hands on the game before making any assumptions.
Also, you need to understand that a lot of what you're reading is still in the location test stage... meaning .. it is not final.
if you see something you dont like ... voice it to TN .. they are reading.
Also, you need to understand that a lot of what you're reading is still in the location test stage... meaning .. it is not final.
if you see something you dont like ... voice it to TN .. they are reading.
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming the nerf to Bass' BT T is a direct result of the input change on WR P+K. Now that it's 4P+K as well as having better frames and much higher damage, it'll likely be used more often. As it's used more often, he'll be in BT more, and since that hit causes a deep stun on hit, he can choose to follow it up with 7K or 4K without fearing a SE.
I'm not sure - I mean, I'm not TN or anything - but that's the only reasonable explanation I could come up with.
I'm not sure - I mean, I'm not TN or anything - but that's the only reasonable explanation I could come up with.
as I said ... that will change back to the frames it was .. (ie will not be nerfed)