Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate General Discussion
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Argentus
Well-Known Member
I have yet to see Kasumi blitz back and forth across the screen as fast as Ayane can. Faster attacks, means faster attacks, not faster overall character. I'm not talking just jabs, I mean EVERYTHING, such as mobility combined with attacks.. I may still be wrong on a technical level, but I'm just trying to make you understand what I'm getting at. Ayane scares me because she can cover the entire screen's distance in a second then dance/spin around my character too fast for me to tell what she's doing, something I never really see Kasumi doing. Kasumi's pokes are faster, but she's easier to read because she feels overall slower when fighting her. To me, anyway.
Nightpup
Well-Known Member
I don't know what Kasumi you're talking about. She can 3P+K right up to you, teleport behind you, jump over your downed body, flip away, do aerial flip kicks into teleport follow ups...etc.
Talking of buffs, Zack needs more tools and crushes like he did in DOAs 2 and 3. Also, I want Zack's Overhead Kick to be a 2-part move, like in DOA2, where you could combo after it, instead of having to do the falling follow-up, because almost ALL of Zack's launchers hit the wall, and that was the only one that didn't. And I have noticed in DOA5, it gives a relaunch so if what I said could be implemented into DOA5U, Zack's game would be brilliant.
Zack's low kicks shouldn't be -frames on hit because that it is just plain stupid. If I did it and it hit, they could be able to throw me in the active frames. Everybody has +frames on their attacks, and Zack has quite alot of moves that give of -frames ON HIT. This is the same for a single jab. Zack should be a respectable character (Not like it would happen), and not a joke character.
Zack's tools are practically useless if you don't want to do predictable combos. Although he does have some great tools in the right hands, but Zack shouldn't be there just for combos. If the gatlling kicks are to have such bad recovery and have -frames ON HIT, make them stun on regular hit, and knockdown after 3 kicks on counter and hi-counter. Zack overall needs to be buffed BIG TIME.
Zack's low kicks shouldn't be -frames on hit because that it is just plain stupid. If I did it and it hit, they could be able to throw me in the active frames. Everybody has +frames on their attacks, and Zack has quite alot of moves that give of -frames ON HIT. This is the same for a single jab. Zack should be a respectable character (Not like it would happen), and not a joke character.
Zack's tools are practically useless if you don't want to do predictable combos. Although he does have some great tools in the right hands, but Zack shouldn't be there just for combos. If the gatlling kicks are to have such bad recovery and have -frames ON HIT, make them stun on regular hit, and knockdown after 3 kicks on counter and hi-counter. Zack overall needs to be buffed BIG TIME.
Dude faster attacks in a FIGHTING GAME means faster character. And what nightpup said.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Edit: Sarah's parry is just P+K not 214P+K. Cheers SR.
Okay an example, Sarah's P+K:
This move parries both mid's and jumps over lows, by doing this it also completely eliminates wake up kicks. Is it wrong to want this move to be negative on block? Even without being +2 on block this move has a ton of different uses without frame advantage. If your opponent does anything other than a high attack she wins, if they try to use a wake up kick she wins. Why is it that when I wake up and block after bating this move I'm still at a disadvantage?
Something like this keeps the tool extremely viable and still better than 90% of the other tools in the game whilst offering the defender a way out of he/she guesses VERY well. I'm all for good tools but some tools are just too useful for too much. If someone throws this move out and it gets blocked I think it's fair that they should be a negative frames if not outright unsafe. It would be like making dragon punches + on block, there should always be a trade off to having an extremely strong tool.
The reason I posted one or two things for a few characters which included my own that needed toning down is specifically because I don't want top tier to get massacred. I just want to make sure when I make a very good read I'm not left in a shitty position as a result.
You lack match up experience. If Ayane is spinning at you from full screen you have plenty of time to react. If she catches you with a mix up then the other player is being rewarded for outplaying you. If Kasumi hit you 4PK you are not going to see the animation of the mid kick and counter it before being launched, same if Ayane does BT PP6K or BT PPK. You cannot react to the animation to avoided getting launched by the high kick.
Ayane may be confusing to look at but that is all it is.
synce
Well-Known Member
So far I've seen or heard about buffs only to mid/low tier characters like Eliot, Zack, Alpha, and Helena. High tier seems to be overall nerfs: Kasumi, Ayane, Leifang, Kokoro, and Lisa. Not sure about Ryu or Tina though. There's going to be another public demo very soon, hopefully more Japanese impressions will roll in.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
None of which is as fast/disorienting as Ayane's rollerball and tornado spinning. With Kasumi, her moves are big, showy, and straightforward. Ayane, I can never tell what the hell is going on, she's always spinning at mach 2. Like a little purple tornado.
Side note, I guess she's not a "little" purple tornado. Now that I think about it, isn't it odd that the girls in this game are all about as tall as the guys? Usually girls tend to be shorter. Irrelevant, but just popped into my head.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
so the characters actual speed is irrelevant to how fast they are, then?
Also, does anyone else kinda with they added Vanessa from Virtua Fighter? Then could team her with Leon, and have two tanned, silver haired, brutal, desert camo commandos.
Forget it. Think what you want. But I agree with omegan. You're clearly not experienced. And that's fine
And omeagan what move is 214 p+k with sarah? Her parry is just p+k
I was actually about to use Sarah's P+K as an example. Again, I agree with the sentiment that characters should be buffed not nerfed. But, some tools are too powerful, and giving other characters comparable tools would not be an ideal way to level the playing field.
For example, if a character has a high-crush mid kick at i10 that was +10 guard break on block and caused a sitdown stun on NH, giving everyone else a comparable move is not a good idea because it essentially makes 95% of attacks stupid options when you have that to use instead. The logical solution is for such a move to be nerfed, not everyone else buffed to compensate.
Again, that's not an actual attack, but the idea is to demonstrate that there can be certain attacks that in need of nerfs. Personally, I feel one such attack is Sarah's P+K.
For example, if a character has a high-crush mid kick at i10 that was +10 guard break on block and caused a sitdown stun on NH, giving everyone else a comparable move is not a good idea because it essentially makes 95% of attacks stupid options when you have that to use instead. The logical solution is for such a move to be nerfed, not everyone else buffed to compensate.
Again, that's not an actual attack, but the idea is to demonstrate that there can be certain attacks that in need of nerfs. Personally, I feel one such attack is Sarah's P+K.
What "testers" are you talking about. I believe its staying too but not because a "tester" mains sarah. You're the same guy who says their taking out the blender
Well, duh. The VFs have so much Joe even Shimbori worships them favorably over his own damn DOA characters.
synce
Well-Known Member
I clearly said I was speculating on that, and I have my reasons for it. TN balances the game based on how they think a character should be played. If they think the blender doesn't suit Helena, it's gone. And I forget the tester's name, but I'm sure I read that somewhere. Think it was Dr Dogg who said it
I like the vf characters personally. But one of my mains is sarah soo yeah lol #buffgenfusarahjanlee
The problem with your speculation is you always state it like its fact. But its all good
The problem with your speculation is you always state it like its fact. But its all good
Kronin
Well-Known Member
If a tool is demonstrated to be excessively powerful I agree to nerf it according to Brute's point of view: I know that Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3 find its balance making overpowerful the majority of the characters (I hope to be right with this assumption), but I can't say to like a similar balance.
My pov is that in general a nerf should arrive just like very last resort, when if it's impossible (or not suitable) to buff the tools of the other characters for compensating the move subject of the discussion.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
It's just P+K? Ha! I've been doing 214P+K whilst trying to figure out ways to get out of that setup!
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