DLC Costumes, a big ripoff?

[Xernuht]

People who already have DOA5 already paid $60 for 25 characters and 114 costumes. This time $40 only got you 5 characters and 117 costumes.

Sure, only a fraction of them are actually new, but account for the mechanical changes, updated netcode (still garbage-tier, I know), rebalancing, new stages, added music...

Besides, it's still cheaper to buy 5U if you didn't buy the old DLC in the first place.

 

[SaihateDYNAMO]

People who already have DOA5 already paid $60 for 25 characters and 114 costumes. This time $40 only got you 5 characters and 117 costumes.

That's a terrible philosophy. The 40 dollars you pay for 5U pats for about 60 dollars worth of DLC. Also the game has 5 new characters, 5 new stages, new on-disc outfits, and completely rebalanced gameplay. Did I forget to mention customizable music? DOA5U is worth the 40 dollar price tag.
(I'm assuming what you'e trying to say is that you are not going to get DOA5U)

 

[Elle Danse]

I don't really have no problem with the pricing, but I do have a problem with purchasing outfits that aren't even that good. I wanted to word that differently but I couldn't think of anything. Also my thing is all of these "Themed" outfits are okay but they could bring individual outfits..GOOD ones. At least better ones from DOA2U. Exact ones. Not outfits that are based off of other outfits then they end up messing it up more than doing it any good. I just want well thought attires is all.

 

[kunio-kun]

That's a terrible philosophy. The 40 dollars you pay for 5U pats for about 60 dollars worth of DLC. Also the game has 5 new characters, 5 new stages, new on-disc outfits, and completely rebalanced gameplay. Did I forget to mention customizable music? DOA5U is worth the 40 dollar price tag.
(I'm assuming what you'e trying to say is that you are not going to get DOA5U)

I'm simply stating to the people who already paid $60 for DOA5, $40 this time around got you less content.

 

[Chapstick]

I'm simply stating to the people who already paid $60 for DOA5, $40 this time around got you less content.

$40 is also less than $60

 

[kunio-kun]

5 characters is also much less than 25 characters.

 

[Chapstick]

5 characters is also much less than 25 characters.

5 characters
5 stages
Combo Challenge
Tutorial
Changing music
Tag survival
Items in survival
Team fight
Extensive fight details
Movie mode
4p tag online
34 new outfits for old characters
$44 of previous dlc
Update to rank system (bonuses for streaks, new rank, character ranks)
Improvements to netcode
300 new titles
New moves and changes for each character

Plus everything from 5.

 

[kunio-kun]

Looks impressive at a glance. Will that sell as a $40 standalone without the meat from DOA5 to back it up? Does that list offset 25 playable characters? Not even mentioning the rest of the stuff $60 got you in DOA5.
Only the people who did not support TN from the start got their money's worth without a question.

 

[Chapstick]

Looks impressive at a glance. Will that sell as a $40 standalone without the meat from DOA5 to back it up? Does that list offset 25 playable characters? Not even mentioning the rest of the stuff $60 got you in DOA5.
Only the people who did not support TN from the start got their money's worth without a question.

If you're going to ignore all that, I can just say that people who bought 5 were suckers that could have stuck with 4 and the only people that got their money's worth were PS3 owners who never got 4. 5 only added 5 characters while removing three btw.

 

[kunio-kun]

Well if people are stupid enough to accept that 5 - 5U is the same amount work as 4 - 5, then yea guess the whole fanbase are suckers.

 

[David Gregg]

Well if people are stupid enough to accept that 5 - 5U is the same amount work as 4 - 5, then yea guess the whole fanbase are suckers.

No one said that we did? If the same amount of work was put in to make 5U as they did between 4 and 5 they might as well have made it 6. No one was asking for a new DOA game just a better version of the current one and I'd say TN did a damn good job and well worth the price imo (and I bought the original at full price).

 

[Tyaren]

I don't really have no problem with the pricing, but I do have a problem with purchasing outfits that aren't even that good.

I agree with that! 1.89€/1.99$ for a new outfit is imho okay. One probably spends that same amount of money (or more) daily on something, that one doesn't really need. Like some chocolate bars from the vending machine in my university, which I only buy and eat, because I am bored, waiting for next lecture...
While I did get something out of it for a few seconds, I can have fun with a really nice costume for my favorite character for like forever.
But I agree as well, that I do regret buying some of the DLC, because I realise afterwards, that the costume sucks. For example Hitomi's cheerleader outfit looks in my opinion very weird on her, because the skirt stands up weirdly from her hips. Or costumes have really bad textures and some others, like the Fighters DLC for the guys, was very low polygon. You can literally count the blocky polygons on their legs. I decided to delete their DLC from my hard drive again. Did you know, that all the guys do have exactly the same skin texture (just a bit lighter or darker), with exactly the same spots/blemishes on the exact same places? And on every model each side of the skin texture is just mirrored, so that every spot on one side is mirrored on the other side as well. I call that lazy and not really worth any more money... I mean, I am a graphics designer and it takes like 2 seconds to slightly alter a mirrored texture in a program like Photoshop, to make it look a little different. Team Ninja didn't even take that time.

 

[d3v]

Idiot's wouldn't be saying all this shit when you realize how much the game actually cost.

Given the accepted ballpark that each character costs $500,000 to make. With 24 new characters (since everyone has new models), we're looking at $12,000,000 for the character budget alone. Now, based on Mike Z's breakdown, characters and levels constitutes only 25-50% of the budget. Assuming an extra $4,000,000 for the 20 stages and we have at a ballpark figure of $32,000,000 to $64,000,000 for the game. It's most likely that TN didn't make all of that back with just DOA5 alone. All the DLC as well as DOA5U is simply helping them recoup that cost.

 

[Tyaren]

A character model cost half a million to make? I very much doubt that, sorry... I am a graphics designer (well, I am studying still) and a friend of mine studies game design. The only way it could cost this much, is, if the designer is Karl Lagerfeld himself and demands hundred thousands as pay check for each character. XD

 

[d3v]

A character model cost half a million to make? I very much doubt that, sorry... I am a graphics designer (well, I am studying still) and a friend of mine studies game design. The only way it could cost this much, is, if the designer is Karl Lagerfeld himself and demands hundred thousands as pay check for each character. XD

Except that multiple players who've made the jump into the industry have confirmed those costs (did you actually read the link I posted?). Also, a character is more than just a model. And even just the model requires alot of work, approval and testing

 

[Drake Aldan]

(it's been said before but)

honestly, I don't have a problem with the pricing or DLC. Nobody forces you to buy those costumes. Hell, Core Fighters is F-R-E-E free. You can't shake a stick at that.

Thing is, just like grievances in the other costume topic, I would be buying, but the stuff that's out now is... questionable?

The guys have a distinct lack of costumes, and the girls have throughout DOA5's life been getting... fetish wear. There are a few cool costumes but I mean... whenever a DLC announcement is made, instead of going OMG SO COOL TAKE MY MONEY it's like... oh, another otaku pack... yay...

I mean I know it costs money to develop these skins. But at the same time when they do spend money, it's like... why did you spend it developing that? I already can't play this game in public!

 

[Yaguar]

Sooo lets take a look at what goes into each character.
Character Model (lets say 60,000 polygons, possibly more in DOA as they only have to render 2)
Character Rig (Joints, well next gen is looking at around 700, majority of which will just control the face).
Character Animations... Fuck. Every attack. Each taking god knows how long to get perfect.

These all have to get through the production team before they are ticked off. So far it has taken them... well quite some time and a team of expertly trained people, and I haven't even looked at the 2D art (texture maps, lots of layers).

Eventually we get to implementation.

AI Programmer - Combo's etc. Possibly taken over by the design team now depends on tool chain.
Animation Programmer - Yup, they have to put into the game and this may be someones job to make sure.
Gameplay Programmer (May be same AI coder) - More implementation of attacks and hooking up timings etc.

Then the design team slates it and changes everything in the frame timings and what happens.

Voice Actors - These aren't cheap. I know from experience.
Music - Character themes etc. because if you don't have it you'll cry.

Testers. A full team of testers spending a few hundred hours making sure everything works, reporting bugs, programmers/designers fix, back for testing. Repeat until the build is stable and as much as you can is cleaned up.

You're talking a lot of people on a decent wage + overheads + outsource work. Oh lets not forget additional costumes and the physics programmer who did all those cloth physics.
It is mainly an art thing once the system works but you still have your design team working on bits.

AKA this shit isn't cheap and $500,000 doesn't sound unreasonable if you consider the size of the team that it takes to implement one. The fact that those not working on this section are getting paid too (in a larger studio) means if you are waiting for a single character to finish and release, it is costing you more.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Interesting. I wonder what was the cost of a game like Girlfight.

 

[deathofaninja]

If you would like to donate to Team Ninja, buy their DLC. Looks like DLC might be good for a change this coming batch though.

 

[kunio-kun]

Idiot's wouldn't be saying all this shit when you realize how much the game actually cost.

Given the accepted ballpark that each character costs $500,000 to make. With 24 new characters (since everyone has new models), we're looking at $12,000,000 for the character budget alone. Now, based on Mike Z's breakdown, characters and levels constitutes only 25-50% of the budget. Assuming an extra $4,000,000 for the 20 stages and we have at a ballpark figure of $32,000,000 to $64,000,000 for the game. It's most likely that TN didn't make all of that back with just DOA5 alone. All the DLC as well as DOA5U is simply helping them recoup that cost.

That means all TN did was further dig themselves into a hole. $2.5 mil just for 5 characters. Sold at $40. Plus the fact only a fraction of people buy a rerelease, and a fraction of that fraction buy DLC.
Of course that is if we actually believe guys in the industry trying to justify themselves to begin with.
Oh, and as a consumer, I personally don't give a **** about their tribulations. All I care for is getting as complete a product as I can. Fair enough if DLC post DOA5U sold, DLC pre DOA5U should have been packaged into rerelease. If the oil companies raise gas prices I don't sit and think about their profits or their overheads or defend and make justifications on their behalf.