DOA: Flaws and Tournament Viability

[Russian-chiropractic19]

Everything they've been suggesting has been with the intention of making DOA5 a solid fighting game. If DOA was suddenly a good fighter, more people outside of the DOA circle would be willing to pick it up. Yes, that would be a side-effect of making DOA5 a solid fighter, not the reason to.


Yes, I'm not the best player at a game I hate to play and haven't put any effort into as a result. I'm glad you were able to come to that conclusion on your own. What were your achievements in this game exactly? I don't recall you ever being pegged as having accomplished anything either. How's the view from your glass house? Got enough stones?


Or maybe it's because I can stand back, think, and look at things objectively.


Perhaps when (level-headed) people actually examine DOA, they all find the same flaws and come to the same conclusions? That's a ridiculous idea, right?


Honestly, I shouldn't be acknowledging your posts not because of the reason you listed but because you're worthless trash that's not worth my time. However, it's a boring Sunday night so I'll let you feel honored that I actually took the time to respond to your ramblings.


Getting sick of the same in-fighting? Haha.

both of yall chill.this isnt the Youtube comment section and as much as you want to be entertained grape do it somewhere else.i dont feel like sorting through a dam cat fight to find post actually pertaining to the thread.

 

[BlackOrochi]

it sounds ike your just a PS3 fanboy to me which is just fine,but irrelevant.anyhow its already going multiplatform so i fail to see the point of this

Irrelevant indeed. If only I cared about what you thought of me...

That aside, if you read my previous posts you'd see that I always thought that DOA going multi-platform was part of the solution.

Your argument is ridiculous. So much so that I don't have much to say because you really do not understand how the tournament scene works. I've been going to tournaments for over 15 years, but I suppose my knowledge of the scene doesn't mean anything and you know all that there is to know about how DOA5 will be competitive without needing a solid gameplay foundation.

To your console exclusive comments, I simply bring up the arcade scene. There were far fewer arcade cabinets than consoles, yet there were still thriving tournament scenes for games that were arcade-exclusive. At one point Evo was arcade-only.

But nevermind that, let's look at console stuff. DOA1 was on the PS1, DOA2 was on the PS2 and the Dreamcast... still no tournament scene. But let's ignore that and just mention that being an Xbox-exclusive killed the scene. I mean it's not like Halo had much of a tournament scene... oh wait, that's an FPS so it probably doesn't count in the world you live in, right?

No need to get on your high horse. I'm not questioning your well boasted experience... I'm trying to broaden your spectrum. But like I said before, take it or leave it.

FPS...So now you want to compare DOA to other genres that work completely different in so many ways and were released at a completely different times... Geez, enough with the fruit salads. We're talking about DOA's particular path. Did Xbox exclusivity kill the DOA scene? You may think it didn't, but I, on the other hand, am pretty confident that it didn't help one bit. Particularly at such an early stage of its development.

So feel free to ignore all of that because DOA3 and DOA4 were Xbox-exclusive and that's all that matters to you. Instead, please, please, please name 30 players who you know will travel out of state for a DOA5 tournament. DOA5 will be on PS3 and 360, and we just had a 3DS DOA game so that pretty much covers all of the bases. We should have a massive tournament scene for DOA5 so it should be easy to name a mere 30 people who will travel...

Ready...? Go!

I won't bother.
You obviously don't realize how ill-timed your challenge is...

And you called my argument ridiculous... smh

 

[grap3fruitman]

We should think before we tweet or post something.

Didn't you harass Team Ninja constantly on Twitter because Gamestop wouldn't take your credit card even though Team Ninja has no control over that? Just saying...

Also, the only ones in this forum who actually know first-hand about the game are Rikuto and DrDogg because they actually played the 0.5 version and later builds while the rest of us have simply tried the alpha demo or haven't played anything at all.

The flaws they're still complaining about are ones that we've been complaining about for years. I think those complaints are still valid.

We have to encourage TN to add the things we want but wait until the game is done before we say it's tournament-viable or not.

So we have to wait until it's too late to fix anything?

If by Sep 25th you don't like the game for whatever reason then just go play TTT2, VF5FS or whatever game you think is better but don't keep hurting the community.

What's going to hurt the community is another trash game, not us.

Holdable stuns, and universal delayed strings are what make DOA DOA, as they've been in each iteration. To remove them will make DOA unrecognizable, thereby alienating the fanbase and killing the beauty of DOA.

These things weren't in the original DOA and that's very much a DOA game. Also, we're not arguing for string delay to be removed, just toned down to a more reasonable level.

 

[DrDogg]

I just don't understand what you guys think or want anymore. If most of what you people say is true, then the game should just be cancelled and this site closed. Team Ninja has added tons of new mechanics and fixed many things to the point where the game's 0.5 version is already vastly superior to DOA4 and Dimensions and 90% of the comments are still incredibly negative towards it.

The game has improved significantly. I'll be the first to agree with that. However, all of the main flaws that prevented DOA4 from having a solid competitive scene are still there. In addition, these new videos show that some good aspects of the E3 build have actually been removed (you can counter out of more stuns than you could at E3).

I feel really confused because I agree partially with both parties. I think the game needed the changes (and still needs more) but I'm also sure TN is on the right track and from the trailers, alpha demo, E3 stream and all the shit we've been seeing I'm sure the game is already very good. Both from the artistic point of view (graphics, environments, girls, etc) and the gameplay one (sidestep, sit-down stuns, CB, etc).

The sidestep is okay, but the implementation is still somewhat lacking. There's recovery on the step and the way it was in the E3 build, it hampered movement. So while I don't want everything to track, the E3 version of the sidestep was only a minor step in the right direction.

Sit-down stuns being unholdable is fantastic... but as of the E3 build you could still shake the stun. If that's the best we get then okay, but again... it's only a small step.

As I said in another thread a few days ago, this site will be filled with new active members starting Sep 25th and we want them to stay, not scare them away with "The game is trash" comments. I'm not saying we should say everything is perfect because I'm well aware it isn't but we can't expect for the hardcore community to grow even a little if all the threads are full of negative feedback from the "fans".

If the game is not tournament-viable, most of the people complaining will not be posting here anymore. You'll lose a good number of veteran players and new blood from other fighting games in favor of completely new players who aren't as concerned with the competitive side of the game.

I won't bother.
You obviously don't realize how ill-timed your challenge is...

And you called my argument ridiculous... smh

Ill-timed? Why, because the game isn't out yet? TTT2 isn't out yet and I can name 30 Tekken players that will travel for it. How is that "challenge" ill-timed? Because you can't name 30 players?

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

If the game is not tournament-viable, most of the people complaining will not be posting here anymore. You'll lose a good number of veteran players and new blood from other fighting games in favor of completely new players who aren't as concerned with the competitive side of the game.

even with DOA4 yall are still here why would DOA5 be any different?

 

[DrDogg]

even with DOA4 yall are still here why would DOA5 be any different?

I guess you missed the 4-year period most of us weren't posting on DOA forums...?

If there was no DOA5, or at least no solid effort by Team Ninja to improve the game, I would not be here.

 

[TRI Mike]

Didn't you harass Team Ninja constantly on Twitter because Gamestop wouldn't take your credit card even though Team Ninja has no control over that? Just saying...

I only sent two or three tweets and I did only because they kept giving me responses about solving the problem for me. In fact, I already found a way to get my hands on a CE. My tweets to TN were of me interested in paying them for the most expensive version of the game while yours were of them losing 120 bucks in two pre-orders and telling them they're not doing a good job with the development. But I won't argue about this because it's silly and it'd turn the discussion in something personal and I actually like and respect you a lot. I just don't agree with you in some things.

 

[Rikuto]

even with DOA4 yall are still here why would DOA5 be any different?

DOA 4 was a gargantuan misstep from its predecessor. This website was created for competitive DOA, even if there are only four people in the world still playing a version of the game that was actually good enough to be played competitively. DOA 5's announcement came afterwards, and that started the hype train and influx of members.


So to answer your question, DOA 5 "brought back" a lot of people with the idea of a competitive game. It brought in some new ones as well who thought it looked cool. If it is neither of those things, I fully expect it to get dead again. Most of the guys here were not regular prior to DOA 5's announcement. Even though many of them are vets from the previous community, they were pretty much done with the game.

 

[BlackOrochi]

Ill-timed? Why, because the game isn't out yet? TTT2 isn't out yet and I can name 30 Tekken players that will travel for it. How is that "challenge" ill-timed? Because you can't name 30 players?

The DOA competitive scene is about to be revived with DOA5 and include players beyond the Xbox realm, and you want me to name players before that actually happens? ... Ill-timed is an understatement.

FYI, the Tekken community has never been amputated, so TTT2's release clearly doesn't represent the series' new lease on life, unlike DOA5; So once again... by comparing both games' release in regards to what is at stake, you're making a fruit salad.

 

[Gill Hustle]

I'm just gonna buy the game and enjoy it, it may still have flaws but it's better than DOA4 and closer to DOA 3.1 and VF5. Right now until I can play it for myself, DOA5 is the next fighter I'm most excited about.

But that's my opinion, I still play DOAD on my 3DS (single player vs computer) but that's me. Hell it was the game I bought the thing for.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

ill still never understand how you expect DOA to live up to your standards.way i see it is games are split into two groups fun/serious its like asking Kingdom Hearts to become Ninja Gaiden while both are technically still in the same genre there are meant to be enjoyed in different ways.youve only set yourselfs up for disappointment and i find it sad you cant seem to enjoy this game for what it is.

 

[Raansu]

The DOA competitive scene is about to be revived with DOA5 and include players beyond the Xbox realm, and you want me to name players before that actually happens? ... Ill-timed is an understatement.

FYI, the Tekken community has never been amputated, so TTT2's release clearly doesn't represent the series' new lease on life, unlike DOA5; So once again... by comparing both games' release in regards to what is at stake, you're making a fruit salad.

WTF are you talking about? As far as consoles go Tekken had been exclusive for the playstation for 14 years and that never stopped it from having a large competitive scene.

DoA4 has no scene because it was a terrible game. If it wasn't for wcg/cgs extending its life it would of died two years earlier. Unless DoA5 takes massive steps to fix what was wrong with DoA4 the competitive scene will stay dead.

 

[BlackOrochi]

WTF are you talking about? As far as consoles go Tekken had been exclusive for the playstation for 14 years and that never stopped it from having a large competitive scene.

DoA4 has no scene because it was a terrible game. If it wasn't for wcg/cgs extending its life it would of died two years earlier. Unless DoA5 takes massive steps to fix what was wrong with DoA4 the competitive scene will stay dead.

Obviously you have trouble understanding my posts, so allow me to repeat myself:

DOA has gone exclusive since 2001 (EDIT: let alone on a brand new console), therefore shooting itself in the foot. But wait! Tekken is an exclusive too! Yes, but only on the top-selling-console of all-time (EDIT: playstation). No match in terms of potential number of players... Thank God DOA5 goes multi-platform, or else DOA would've died with or without you're guaranteed-combo-fix crusade.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

I'm an idiot.

Fact: Players from other communities never gave DOA4 a half decent chance - this is evidenced by the fact that none of them traveled to either CGS combine but then again how can you blame them, Evo 06 on normal life showed em how DOA is "supposed" to be played.

Fact: I won money playing this game and would have won more if not for a bad attitude at the time.

Fact: You can't tell a chef how to make something taste better if you've never even had a full course of what hes serving.

Fact: You're a joke around here, no one really takes you seriously and anytime you're ever in a debate with someone you end up skulking away after you've been exposed as the dick rider that you are.

Critical thinking isn't something they taught you a D-bag U huh?

 

[Skilletor]

It's awesome how every discussion eventually degenerates to personal insults on this site.

 

[Scott]

People really need to use this awesome ignore feature. Shout-outs to Sorwah.

 

[Matt Ponton]

It's awesome how every discussion eventually degenerates to personal insults on this site.

It's no different than many other online sites. The problem is that it's more noticeable on a community like this due to it's very small numbers in comparison to other online sites. You'd see a lot of it being drowned out if there were more sensible people in the community who just knew who to ignore to avoid the spats that come up every so often.

 

[DrDogg]

The DOA competitive scene is about to be revived with DOA5 and include players beyond the Xbox realm, and you want me to name players before that actually happens? ... Ill-timed is an understatement.

So you can't name 30? That's all you had to say.

For the record, if the game was everything we have been asking for it to be back at E3, I could name 30 people who would travel for a DOA5 tournament right now. In fact, if we assume the game will be tournament-viable, I could still name 30 people... right now... before the release...

FYI, the Tekken community has never been amputated, so TTT2's release clearly doesn't represent the series' new lease on life, unlike DOA5; So once again... by comparing both games' release in regards to what is at stake, you're making a fruit salad.

Hmm... seems you don't know much about the competitive Tekken scene. What do you think happened when Japan got a two year head start on Tekken 6? What do you think happened when Japan and most of the world outside of the US got a full year head start on TTT2?

The Tekken community has been :"amputated" for years. That's the main reason why it's been struggling for the past few years compared to how it used to be.

And considering the fact that a lot of people didn't like Tekken 6 (casuals) and are coming back to the series for Tekken Tag 2 (many for the first time since TTT1), it sounds like a pretty good comparison to me.

 

[UnD34D]

You guys are all scrubs, obviously.

Now that I'm done trolling (and apparently I'm a new member? I made my account on day 1!) Dr. D brings up a great point with Tekken. I could name 30 players who would travel for DOA2:U or DOA3.1... but shit, DOA4, when I went to majors for Tekken, I couldn't even get 9 players to sign up for a DOA tournament just to have one, and that was with more than 9 acclaimed DOA players being there! Tekken still has a great scene, but a LOT of players are waiting for TTT2, which I'd like to add I go to the arcades and play every week, so suck it.

 

[Blackula]

Nice try, Dogg. Care to share the list of contestants? I'm sure it's filled with international players...

EDIT: And either way, it could be a promotional stunt by MK to try to boost slacking international sales... A tournament labelled "international" isn't a testimony to international success.



Are you comparing MK & DOA tournaments held at the same event? Because if not, that argument doesn't fly.



That only supports what I just said about DOA cutting itself from the world since DOA3... But I believe that the competitive scene will grown worldwide thanks to Tecmo's global multi-platform strategy and promotion. Not the game engine.

Actually, I'll be glad to list them for you.

A Foxy Grandpa - England
Mustard - England
Ketchup - England
Used For Glue - Northern Ireland

The match was the US vs the UK

Also, MK9 had 10 countries represented at EVO: USA, Canada, Mexico, Chile, Brazil, England, Northern Ireland, Germany, Belgium and Japan. And now that Australia finally got their M18+ rating approved, we'll probably see Australia next year since they have a scene down there as well. Also we plan on raising a lot more money to help more of the European players come over this year because they have players elsewhere in the EU. It just costs so much money for them to fly over to the US though.

People will travel for the game if it's at big tournaments. Even if it doesn't improve much beyond the e3 build.
Local communities will need to feed players into those tournaments and over time you new fans of the game to keep enjoying the game. So long as you have that, people will play.
I can already see good crossover with the people who play sc5 and vf5, and I think Doa will end up being better than sc and not as good as vf but providing a nice alternate flavor.
Ruling the game out over whether they do or do not make X or Y change is a players prerogative but that won't influence the majority of players who decide if they want to play, aside from it being best not to prejudge.
Finally dedicated tournament organizers need to commit at grassroots level

Not just big tourneys. We hold regular tourneys for MK9 here in Virginia and we get like 25+ on average. We did a bigger tourney in April giving the winner a trip to EVO and we had 50 people show up for that tourney and it wasn't a major. It was just something special we did for one of our tourneys and we had quite a few out of towners travel for it. So a game doesn't have to be at a "major" for people to go to it. You just need to give someone the right reason for wanting to travel. If the game turns out being the game that we all hope it does, then you can expect people to travel more. If the game turns out being more of the same, then you can expect people to just stay home.

I still think TN are doing a great job with the game. It won't be perfect but from the trailers it's obvious that it's a HUGE (read: HUUUUUGE) step forwards from DOA4 and Dimensions. It's gonna be solid, but not popular. The same fate suffered by KOF13 and VF5FS and hell... even BlazBlue.

Were you and I watching the same KOF13 tourney because I know at EVO, It had almost 1100 participants with representatives from A LOT of countries. KOF 13 has actually been doing well in the US overall judging by the numbers that we've been seeing at all the majors this year.

134 people for KOF13 at Evo:http://bbr.s23.eatj.com/evoweb2K12/players/kof13/index
193 people for VF5FS at Evo: http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/332342/VF5FS Brackets for EVO 2012

Slightly off there broski. KOF13 had close to 1100 people. It was the third largest tourney in attendance at EVO only behind AE2012 and UMVC3. KOF13 did garner the second highest stream views on twitch only having less views to UMVC3. UMVC3 had 95K view, KOF13 had 90K views, and AE2012 had 77K views. Yep, it even got more views than AE2012!!!


He he he, I noticed you quoted my thread from VFDC. I should have corrected that. It was 192. They actually put someone's name on the bracket twice. Silly them. lol

DOA 4 was a gargantuan misstep from its predecessor. This website was created for competitive DOA, even if there are only four people in the world still playing a version of the game that was actually good enough to be played competitively. DOA 5's announcement came afterwards, and that started the hype train and influx of members.


So to answer your question, DOA 5 "brought back" a lot of people with the idea of a competitive game. It brought in some new ones as well who thought it looked cool. If it is neither of those things, I fully expect it to get dead again. Most of the guys here were not regular prior to DOA 5's announcement. Even though many of them are vets from the previous community, they were pretty much done with the game.

I'm part of the returning crowd. That's the reason I've been back to the site more. I used to post a lot on DOAC but just kinda stopped after a while. Then Sorwah created this site like 2 years ago, and I joined but I really didn't contribute anything. So here's to giving DOA another shot.

I'm just gonna buy the game and enjoy it, it may still have flaws but it's better than DOA4 and closer to DOA 3.1 and VF5. Right now until I can play it for myself, DOA5 is the next fighter I'm most excited about.

But that's my opinion, I still play DOAD on my 3DS (single player vs computer) but that's me. Hell it was the game I bought the thing for.

I wouldn't exactly call it close to VF5 or anything VF related until this game adds a more legit throw breaking system.

Obviously you have trouble understanding my posts, so allow me to repeat myself:

I'm sorry but I have to correct you. The fact that Playstation has sold tons of consoles has no bearing on the fact that Tekken is a popular game. Tekken is a popular game because it has a good fan base. It wouldn't have mattered if the game were on PS or XBox because the fan base was established while it was in the ARCADE. It has a good fan base and it continues to currently be one of the top games in Japan because it's a damn solid game. If it didn't, Tekken would not be popular.

DOA's lack of a real arcade presence is what hurt early in its establishment. Considering that arcades were so big back then, that's what Team Ninja should have continued to do was to push the arcade scene. I can't ever remember seeing a DOA machine where I lived but I saw a VF machine and a Tekken machine almost always.