DOA5 Is "Not Looking to be a Technical Fighter"

[UncleKitchener]

edit: 3.1 is the japanese version. The french/euro version is 3.2, and the main difference between the two versions is that the move tracking in 3.1 allowed for characters to successfully sidestep attacks in more of a VF/Tekken manner. in 3.2 the tracking is tightened up significantly and this is made much more difficult, and in 3.0 it is virtually impossible.

3.2 is still a good game if you can live without the sidestepping evading things. It had lots of unique wall traps, inescapable combos, and character diversity. 3.1 just has another layer of depth added to it.

What? So they mostly track? That is pretty fucking retarded, considering how significant, how fast and far side-stepping takes you in doa. TeamN really need to take their heads out their asses and make up their mind about side stepping and tracking in DOA5 because if this was Tekken and I get hit with a mishima 112 after a successful side-step, I would fucking break my stick, no joke. That sort of thing would infuriate Tekken players if they can't space safely, same thing in VF. Yeah, you could dash cancel safely straight, but if you're looking to do a punish after a SS and you get hit with a move that's not supposed to, that would be lame.

How were frame advantages like on block in DOA4? I heard the wrestlers were pretty track in that sort of game and kept getting more garbage after DOA2.

edit: what really bothers me about the DOA community is that they don't talk strategy enough, especially on DOACentral. Is it because they did that years ago or do you guys speak a whole other language?

 

[Awesmic]

edit: what really bothers me about the DOA community is that they don't talk strategy enough, especially on DOACentral. Is it because they did that years ago or do you guys speak a whole other language?

It's not so much speaking another language, minus numbers and letters for notations...

But on a serious note-- speaking for myself in this case, it was the constant fear of feeling or being made useless for trying to contribute. I've had that feeling for years upon seeing others get trashed on by a certain party for trying just that. Fortunately, they've changed for the better, albeit taking 3+ years to do so. It was then I mustered up the courage to make some form of a DOA 4.1 Christie guide. It isn't the most accurate nor the most complete, but it's something I can say is in my own words through actual experience. Were competition more lively now and I had the attitude I have today, it would've meant something. Hearing about DOA5 kind of gives me hope that I can redeem myself more effectively when it comes to subjects like this. I have been rather weak in this department.

 

[Allan Paris]

There really isn't any frame advantage in DOA4, one character I can think of off top that has it is Hitomi and her . She's plus 1 from it but that shit really doesn't matter. Wrestlers are garbage in DOA4, in the DOA's before it they were actually usable. Now in DOA4 if you're not Spartan ( a character that's not even a part of the DOA universe) then you are pretty much assed out for using a wrestler. Tina is ok but that's not saying much.

Side-Stepping does need to be back in the game because everything tracks in DOA4. You can step somethings but the timing on it is ridiculous and its not guaranteed to work every time.

Don't worry about DOAC it's the past, welcome to Freestepdodge.com where strategic thoughts will be given out. You can look around there is a different attitude here. This site just weeded out all the bullshit that DOAC carries or carried, I personally don't visit the site anymore to know what's going on there.

Tkplayers is the site that DOAC turned into but that site covers all Tecmo Koei games and not just DOA alone.

 

[Rikuto]

Doa 4 has....


-- No frame advantage on block, except for one character and it's at the end of a string that can be ducked. It's incredibly difficult to even conceive of a strategy in a fight because EVERYTHING IS MINUS.

-- No sidestepping evasion, apart from a few specific sidestep attacks that only a couple characters have.

-- No guaranteed launches from wall hits, as people can counter after being wallhit or slow/stagger escape to fall quicker. in doa 3 you had this as a form of guaranteed damage. This destroyed more than half of the offensive strategy behind the game.

-- Greatly reduced character movement and larger hitboxes making it difficult to space.

-- No Ground throw setups. No ground throws are guaranteed anymore.

-- Counters that do far more damage in-stun than a person's potential damage if they were launched, making the hold the most dominant part of the triangle system.

-- Projectile-like range on wakeup attacks, which are covered predominantly in invincible frames, and can come at three different hit levels. They are also completely safe due to pushback except against one character.

-- Completely random stage environment shit that will KO you like cars, cheetahs, and pterodactyls that are sometimes impossible to see coming until it's too late.

-- Stage falls don't KO, so you can't use them strategically to finish anybody off.

-- The ability to counter during hitstun with pretty much no exception.

Now with all of this in mind, I am sure you already understand how it is painful to even play that game casually, let alone competitively.

The reason people don't talk a lot of strategy for DOA 4 is because.... well, how the hell can you? There's only a few characters it even exists for.


If a Tekken player wants to knock on DOA 4 and doacentral, I give them my blessing. Just so long as they don't ignorantly speak about doa 3, because it had just about none of the problems I listed.

 

[Raansu]

Play doa3.1 like the rest of us and be depressed lol.

 

[Allan Paris]

Doa 4 has....


-- No Ground throw setups. No ground throws are guaranteed anymore.

Everything you said but this is dead on. This is a part of what makes Tina decent from the rest of the wrestlers. Besides her being one of the safest characters to play with. She does have guaranteed ground throws in certain situations. With her back to the wall she gets a free ground throw from her (I believe that's the input). She can also get free ground throws depending on the moves she does to knock her opponent down in the middle of the floor.

Still, it is not unviersal for the rest of the wrestlers/grapplers and, I believe that is your point in saying that. So my bad for being too anal.

 

[Rikuto]

Ah true, I did forget that one thing.

I don't believe she has anything else guaranteed on the ground though. Nor does anyone, provided the person techs.

But I digress, it's a road ive explored in the past and it leads only to disappointment.

 

[Gill Hustle]

Play doa3.1 like the rest of us and be depressed lol.

I'm close to having 3.1 on display at Ultimate Gaming Spot (A compatible/presentable TV arriving soon! )

Question I have is, was 3.1 considered a "mistake" by Team Ninja or did everything it had was their intention?

I mean you guys said DOA4 was fine till the VF players got things changed, I'm just wondering if Team Ninja was just going against their own interests to pull in more players.

 

[Raansu]

I'm close to having 3.1 on display at Ultimate Gaming Spot (A compatible/presentable TV arriving soon! )

Question I have is, was 3.1 considered a "mistake" by Team Ninja or did everything it had was their intention?

I mean you guys said DOA4 was fine till the VF players got things changed, I'm just wondering if Team Ninja was just going against their own interests to pull in more players.

We joke about it a lot about how TN accidentally stumbled onto a gem because of the "adjustments" they made to the stepping and tracking in 3.2 along with a few other things.

As for DoA4, who knows what really happened.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Man, you guys seem boned.

I know that falls in DOA2 don't KO either which infuriates me. If your last game was worse than doa2 and your only good game in the series was the Japanese-only version, then no wonder why the doa scene is dying out, if there really is a scene any more (also considering how the former point man, Master is a sleazy son of a bitch).

TeamNinja should seriously consider listening to you guys and since Itagaki is gone, maybe you could actually have a decent game without there being any alpha males and ego-driven people on the dev team.

The things they need to work on would be to take suggestions from the fanbase, which apparently, which I sure hope they seem to be doing. The reaction from the casual players has so far been pretty positive in terms of gameplay for Dimention. Almost everyone has a criticism or two regarding the presentation. Personally, I don't care about presentation as long as they're there.

Some of you talked about customizations to characters for DOA 4 rather than separate costumes. I'm pretty sure there are people who would love to dress hayabusa as a clown and his sword swapped with a giant horn.

Also, I was at the London Fight Club event today and mentioned DOA to two players, one a soul cal and one a tekken player. Both said they had fun with with game and the soul cal player went as far as defending the hold and wall splats in DOA4. Guess people still remember.

 

[Awesmic]

I overlooked this post from earlier...

I'm not the type to send lynch mobs honestly and even if I was I wouldn't have bothered because most vets and old tekken players have probably forgotten about it or just automatically call it garbage since that's part of our instinct. Tekken players may be jocks, but they don't take pleasure out of being white knights or lynchers. Those are usually the scrubs.

I see.

I'm still waiting for DOA5 to come out and see if it's any good. Trust me, a lot of tekken players would actually play the game if it turns out to be good for tourneys or get's played at Evo.

That has to be the most unbelievable assumption I've heard all year, if not the most comforting.

If it turns out true, then man, that'd be one hell of a peace treaty.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Update your status...

I overlooked this post from earlier...

I see.

That has to be the most unbelievable assumption I've heard all year, if not the most comforting.

If it turns out true, then man, that'd be one hell of a peace treaty.

Trust me, dude, if I was a troll scrub, I would've not bothered and would've gone to places like DOA Central of Doaworld or something. Tekken players don't hate doa players' guts, they just don't want to associate with them, like doa is that black sheep of fighting games that keeps shitting the bed but refuses to die.

>Here< is Aeris, one of the really goony players of the south cal tekken scene and he was actually pretty hyped for it (starts at 10:17 on the second video.

You guys ought to beat yourselves on the head less. doa5 might actually turn out to be good for a year or two at the very least, especially considering it's coming out on both ps3 and 360. Just keep shoving those suggestions to the devs and maybe things might turn out almost as well, that is if the devs give a shit.

 

[Rikuto]

Tekken players don't hate doa players' guts, they just don't want to associate with them, like doa is that black sheep of fighting games that keeps shitting the bed but refuses to die.

I lol'd.

Well the only way DOA 5 can be worse than it is is if they allow you to counter in mid-air. I think even that is a little too stupid for them though.

So yea. Cautious optimism. Very cautious optimism.

 

[Raansu]

We don't beat ourselves on the head, we are mostly just burnt out with the old community and trying to rebuild. The old community was built from doa2u with almost all online players/casuals, our only real solid game was the Japanese version that needed a modded xbox to play and had no online play, so no one wanted anything to with that, and since the scene was built from online players, traveling to play a game was "blasphemy" and simply out of the question. Offline events picked up a small amount before doa4 but went into full gear with DoA4 because of CGS and WCG, but as soon as CGS died and WCG dropped DoA4 the offline scene died to because there was no money involved anymore. The only "major" tournament we have now doesn't even hold doa3.1 or do2u even, they just host doa4 and doa4 only. Getting people to travel is fairly difficult given our history, especially for the game thats hated to most by its own community.

Short history lesson jumbled into one wall of text lol. Back to my original point, put simply, most of us are just kinda burnt out and are hoping for a solid game like doa3.1 since the majority of this community is built around doa3.1 players. That doesn't necessarily mean we have given up though. Sorwah has good connections to TN and we have sent in plenty of questions/suggestions, and if were up to any of us here, we would send both Sorwah and VirtuaPai over to Japan in a heartbeat as they are like the guru's when it comes to statistics of DoA.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Fuck doa5, just give me 3.1 with hayate's cartwheel removed. Id rather play a game thats out and I know is good, than wait around for a game not out for a while and it's entire engine could change up to the last week. I made that mistake with doa4.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Having fun at NEC there Mr. Wah?

 

[Raansu]

Fuck doa5, just give me 3.1 with hayate's cartwheel removed. Id rather play a game thats out and I know is good, than wait around for a game not out for a while and it's entire engine could change up to the last week. I made that mistake with doa4.

Someone's having a bad day >_>

 

[Rikuto]

Ten bucks says he's been drinkin.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I bet it's because not a single person showed up for DOA again at NEC.

 

[Rikuto]

No one will come until DOA 5. You can say fuck DOA 5, but thats the truth and we all know it. I thought this was obvious for years now, but certain people like to crucify themselves at NEC every year.

/shrug

Sorwah may be comfortable playing the game with only a handful of souls in the world, but awesome as it is, I need competition and so do most people.