DOA5: Mr. Wah goes over the Dead or Alive 5 Demo

[UncleKitchener]

I don't know why SegaAM2 changed the throw break system, I very much preferred it the way it was in 4Evo and 5 vanilla. But I'd very much like to buffer throw escapes. Buffering throw escapes on reaction requires some good amount of effort and dexterity, so it would be nice having that sort of mechanic.

Then again, I really doubt TN would ever put in a mechanic like this in the game at this stage.

 

[DrDogg]

But sure, fail to make solid points in the discussion and resort to insulting the skill level of your opposition. GGs

Did I quote your post? Did I mention your name in my post? I don't believe I was talking to you.

Our conversation was over because I didn't think we were understanding what the other was wanting/asking for. But hey, keep on making false assumptions.

That's an illogical argument. The competitive player doesn't need things simple and obvious unless they're not as competitive as they think they are, Mr. Internet Tough Guy.

I said nothing about "simple" or "obvious". I said "defined" as in, when I duck/block/evade attack "A", I can punish with strategy "A". This as opposed to, when I duck/block/evade attack "A", I can use strategy "A", but then the opponent can guess right and I'll lose 30%. I can use strategy "B", but then the opponent can guess right and I'll lose 30%. I can use strategy "C", but then the opponent can guess right and I'll lose 30%. I can also use strategy "D", but then the opponent can guess right and I'll lose 30%.

Also, anything I say online, I will say to your face with no problems. There's nothing about me that would fall under the category of "Internet Tough Guy".

This doesn't mean a character can't have a multitude of options in a given situation, and this doesn't mean a game should revolve around limited set of options. Personally, I'd be more in support of having more options, since then, the extra element of playstyle becomes a more pronounced factor adding to the depth of a game.

No matter how many options you have, the chances of those options all being equal are extremely slim. There will always be a best option, and that is what most competitive players will use... 90% of the time. Now the best option may change depending on stage positioning (like it does in Tekken), but there's still a best option for that situation, which negates all other options.

 

[Master_Thespian]

Did I quote your post? Did I mention your name in my post? I don't believe I was talking to you.

Our conversation was over because I didn't think we were understanding what the other was wanting/asking for. But hey, keep on making false assumptions.

You didn't say anyone by name, so I guess you were just throwing some weaksauce passive aggressive garbage up in the air.

I understand that I want a better Dead or Alive and you want Tekken with dynamic stages. Tekken is a good game and it has the most sentimental value for me as it was the fighter that got me into the genre, but I don't enjoy playing it anymore and the more recent design decisions wouldn't be good for Dead or Alive.

 

[DrDogg]

You didn't say anyone by name, so I guess you were just throwing some weaksauce passive aggressive garbage up in the air.

I understand that I want a better Dead or Alive and you want Tekken with dynamic stages. Tekken is a good game and it has the most sentimental value for me as it was the fighter that got me into the genre, but I don't enjoy playing it anymore and the more recent design decisions wouldn't be good for Dead or Alive.

>_>

Please quote where I stated DOA should play like Tekken. While you're at it, ignore all the posts where I clearly stated that DOA should continue to play like DOA, but with an added layer of depth on top.

 

[Ubersuntzu]

Also, anything I say online, I will say to your face with no problems.

Maybe. According to you. But it's pretty pointless to make such an empty claim because you're NOT saying it to my face and you know just as well as I do that you can't. In an environment without consequences all tough talk is cheap. Which is why most people who want to be respected online don't bother. Hence your being an internet tough guy.

 

[DrDogg]

Maybe. According to you. But it's pretty pointless to make such an empty claim because you're NOT saying it to my face and you know just as well as I do that you can't. In an environment without consequences all tough talk is cheap. Which is why most people who want to be respected online don't bother. Hence your being an internet tough guy.

You're new here I take it? I've said quite a bit offline.

 

[Berzerk!]

Guys, I think you've misread DrDogg's tone and taken it a little personally. Try not assuming the worst case, as it's not the case. Move on now?

 

[Arnell Long]

I remember Dr Dogg showing me how different it is for offline and online play...mind you, I was good online, but when I played offline I was so used to the repetitiveness of online play I forgot to realize the amount of depth it was to play someone offline...I appreciate the ass-whooping which made me a better player, God I played so horribly...

I know I choked, but no excuse, thanks to X-Dest, Shad, and Dr Dogg...I have evolved to a better player and DOA5 will only exceed that 10 fold...

 

[x Sypher x]

I don't have anyone to play offline with

 

[Game Over]

I don't know why SegaAM2 changed the throw break system, I very much preferred it the way it was in 4Evo and 5 vanilla. But I'd very much like to buffer throw escapes. Buffering throw escapes on reaction requires some good amount of effort and dexterity, so it would be nice having that sort of mechanic.

Then again, I really doubt TN would ever put in a mechanic like this in the game at this stage.

I'm pretty sure changes made in VF5FS (throw breaks, included) were made due to people complaining about the "difficult" learning curve of the game. Sad as it is, many games are being adapted these days to try to accommodate a lower standard of player.

 

[Master_Thespian]

>_>

Please quote where I stated DOA should play like Tekken. While you're at it, ignore all the posts where I clearly stated that DOA should continue to play like DOA, but with an added layer of depth on top.

I'm not going to take the time to hunt for things you've said in various threads here, at NeoGAF and Shoryuken. But you want to weaken the hold (which I agree with) and throw (which I don't agree with) systems. The triangle should be equally strong from a system standpoint which individual characters having their own weaknesses and strengths in said systems.

Tekken has the worst throw and reversal systems of the major 3D fighters so that's what it sounds like to me. If I said I wanted DOA to stay DOA but remove all 3D movement and add fireballs and meter it wouldn't be out of the question for you to say I wanted to make DOA into Street Fighter.

We obviously just have a difference of opinion so let's just leave it at that.

EDIT: I should amend that to say that Tekken has the least effective throw and reversal systems since it works for them.

 

[Game Over]

No matter how many options you have, the chances of those options all being equal are extremely slim. There will always be a best option, and that is what most competitive players will use... 90% of the time. Now the best option may change depending on stage positioning (like it does in Tekken), but there's still a best option for that situation, which negates all other options.

I just reread your earlier post. I guess I initially thought you were making a point against having more options in various situations, but really, you were just saying (as you reiterated here) competitive players want a "best choice" to be defined and clear over others (regardless of number of alternatives). I can agree with this.

 

[ScattereDreams]

I don't have anyone to play offline with

MEH, Just beat the CPU 15 wins straight and, play against Hitomi.. She takes off gloves and really gives ya a challenge!

 

[x Sypher x]

MEH, Just beat the CPU 15 wins straight and, play against Hitomi.. She takes off gloves and really gives ya a challenge!

I don't even have the DOA5 demo, but I meant for any DOA game in general. I don't know anyone who plays DOA where I live.

 

[Asbel Lhant]

^ Nearly all my friends hate Dead or Alive their all Tekken/Streetfighter/Blazblue fanatics....

 

[x Sypher x]

^ Nearly all my friends hate Dead or Alive their all Tekken/Streetfighter/Blazblue fanatics....

Dude I hardly know anyone out here who plays any fighting games at all. Where I live it's nothing but a bunch of FPS players lol. The only FGC here that I know of is a small community who plays Super Smash Bros Brawl. I have connections to them via one of my friends in college.

 

[Asbel Lhant]

^ None of my friends are into FPS but EVERYONE at work and School are sooooo into Halo,Call of Duty etc. It's sickening >.<

 

[DrDogg]

Dude I hardly know anyone out here who plays any fighting games at all. Where I live it's nothing but a bunch of FPS players lol. The only FGC here that I know of is a small community who plays Super Smash Bros Brawl. I have connections to them via one of my friends in college.

What city do you live in?

I'm not going to take the time to hunt for things you've said in various threads here, at NeoGAF and Shoryuken. But you want to weaken the hold (which I agree with) and throw (which I don't agree with) systems. The triangle should be equally strong from a system standpoint which individual characters having their own weaknesses and strengths in said systems.

I'm going to give this one last attempt to clarify. For the record, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to clarify my stance so you might understand it better.

I want throws to be less important in that they should not be the best punishment options. I would actually be okay with throws remaining unbreakable, so long as I have reason to use something other than throws when I want to punish an unsafe attack.

Even if throws were all breakable, given the speed of throws, and the likely small throw break window, it's not like you're going to see throws being broken all the time (like Tekken/SF). You definitely won't see them being ducked on reaction (like SC).

You claim that the triangle should be equal, but right now it's not... and going by DOA2 and DOA4, it's never been. Holds are ALWAYS the most powerful tool. Throws are second to that because they're the primary form of punishment. You only attack because you kind of have to, but you attack in fear of the opponent landing a hold.

If all three systems were equal, I'd actually think things were moving in a very good direction.

And for the record, I don't post about DOA on SRK. In addition, I want DOA to remain as it was in DOA2U, then add a proper sidestep, attacks/launchers that ignore holds (and/or stuns that can't be held out of) and normal hit launchers fast enough to punish most unsafe attacks. I don't think that would make DOA resemble any other fighter, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Vyse]

In addition, I want DOA to remain as it was in DOA2U, then add a proper sidestep, attacks/launchers that ignore holds (and/or stuns that can't be held out of) and normal hit launchers fast enough to punish most unsafe attacks. I don't think that would make DOA resemble any other fighter, but that's just my opinion.

I'm interested in attacks that ignore holds, but I'd prefer seeing them implemented not as launchers but as heavy-damage attacks with a lot of push-back to increase wall damage possibility, or with a property that grants an untechable knockdown. So they'd be strong attacks tailor-made for whiff punishing without fear of holds, but not with a guaranteed juggle on top of it. You could also go right for one of these bypassing attacks after landing a stun on your opponent, sacrificing the launch opportunity.

Of course, close to the wall, you could stun --> hold-immune attack into wall --> wall juggle.

 

[Game Over]

One thing that would have to be a property of any such anti-hold attack is that is must be linear, so that it can be sidestepped and punished if randomly thrown out.

Personally, I'd think, for one example, any attack that guard-breaks should also have anti-hold properties. Make the opponent have to beat them by interrupting the attack, or sidestepping it.