Hayate Video and critique thread

#1
I noticed that there wasn't a dedicated thread for critiquing film of Hayate play and decided to make one.
Mostly to help myself to be honest.

Dead or Alive 5 is my first dead or alive game and after jumping from character to character and even dropping the game since it came out in September I have found that Hayate seems like a perfect fit for me. I like his style of combat and I have had the best results playing with him in the short time that I have been maining him. (About a week and a half, lol.)

I am the type of person that learns better with example as well as experience, and while I am trying to get as much experience as I can myself, I don't have many examples to follow, besides some video from Takeda, G-Gil and from the few times I have seen accurate play, I can't really find many examples of how to use Hayate effectively.

So I propose this thread to try and get more Hayate video's out there as well as to help strengthen Hayate players in general.

(side note if there is already a Hayate video thread out there and I missed it, I do apologize.)
 
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#2

To start it off, I offer some of my own scrubby game play.
From what a few friends of mine have told me, and also what I have figured out myself. Is that I am too dependent on mid punches, but I lack the knowledge to mix it up without the punches (still very new).
I also notice that I overuse the mid punch launcher, but I don't stop myself because it doesn't get held often. (Unless I'm playing Steady.)
And as you can see in the Eliot match, if I am pressured and can't guess out of it, I don't know how to interrupt very well, sure I can get a low hit or two, but if I am left at neutral against a faster character I am basically just put back into deep water without a life jacket.

Well enough of me beating myself up does anyone else see ways of helping me improve? Please be kind.

(edit, yea I know the backflip is a bad habit, but it is like an ongoing joke that I have with a few friends, I don't do it to everyone I promise.)
 
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TakedaZX

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#3
Sorry I didn't open this thread sooner. I don't claim to be the best Hayate... but I'd probably be the most knowledgeable person to look to, who actually post in this section. Also you posted the wrong video for the 3rd one. Here's the correct one.


Part of the reason is because Hayate is a character that goes far neglected in this game because no one thinks he's [good]. There's truth to this. He's not good. He's solid. Mediocre. Playable, but not extremely amazing. Anyway enough about the gripes. If you're up for that challenge, maybe you'll be the one to show his potential and I'll do my best to help.

So...

There's a few things we should get straight first. For one thing you've gotta be ready to build yourself up as player on top of a Hayate main considering Hayate is probably one of the characters that really depends on your ability to make good reads and bait out things. So lets talk a bit about Hayate specific stuff here.

You should get a bit more acquainted with Hayate's moves and pressure strings especially. Rekkuga and his other guard breaks are amazing pressure which can be used to get your opponent to lock up so that you can make them play your game.

236T 7k is a grab that you should make very big use of. It's 72 damage guaranteed everytime which is more than the Raijin. Use 236T to punish unsafe moves and use the Raijin/Nakiryu to punish whiffed holds.

I unfortunately don't have a 360 version to play with you on but after I sleep I go into more detail on match specific stuff. Make sure you check out my Hayate Breakdown Thread as well [here]. There's details on his key moves and it gives some combos to look at and practice. It's quite a read but I believe it's well worth it and it'll give you a bit of an understanding on what you need to be doing with Hayate.

See you soon.
 

TakedaZX

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#6
Changed my mind actually... here's some of the more obvious things for you to look at.

1. Utilize his guard breaks, frame traps, and wind dash transitions into his guard breaks. (i.e. :P::P::6::[[P]]:, :9::P::[[P]]:, :6::6::P::[[P]]:, :P::P::2::K::6::p+k::P:, :2::1::4::K:, :236::P:, etc).

2. Whenever you land :3::P::P: and get the sitdown stun, follow up with :3::3::K: for a launcher. You can do setups like :6::6::P: :~: :3::P::P: :~: :3::3::K: :~: :8::P: :~: :P::P::6::P::K: and more.

3. Get used to using :236::H+P: :~: :7::K:
 
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#7
I will usually go to :236::H+P::~::7::K: for whiffed attacks, but on whiffed holds I will use the :3::3::H+P:, or even the :41236::H+P: and either finish the combo throw, or :4::K::6::K::~::8::P::~::P::P::6::P::K:.
I am actually happy that you are telling me to use guard breaks, because that verifies their use to me, I am starting to utilize more strings, because I realize that I am over estimating my opponent most times, making myself believe that they will hold everything that I do instead of trusting my own mix up capabilities. :P::P::6::[P]: and
:9::P::[[P]]:, will definitely work well for me.

A set-up I catch myself using a lot is :p+k:(I love the sitdown stun opportunities and the range is nice) :3::P::P: and then I mix it up from there, I will either CB, mid kick launch, or I will bait a hold and :41236::H+P: and juggle or combo throw. And if the counter the double mid punch ( :3::P::P:) I will only do :3::P: and repeat the same option as listed above.

I have also found some success mixing up :P::P::2::K: because of the ambiguous mix up that lies in there.

But I guess my rambling is all just leading up to this question I have, as you can see in my vids most of the time when I land a hit, I string punches (mostly mid :oops:) stunning until I launch. basically the way I play is Stun-Stun-Launch or Stun-Launch, and they are all single hit stuns, should I continue playing this way? or should I stun with short strings to open up CB opportunities? Because I notice the way I play shuts out the chances of a CB unless I counter hit.
 

TakedaZX

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#8
I will usually go to :236::H+P::~::7::K: for whiffed attacks, but on whiffed holds I will use the :3::3::H+P:, or even the :41236::H+P: and either finish the combo throw, or :4::K::6::K::~::8::P::~::P::P::6::P::K:.
I am actually happy that you are telling me to use guard breaks, because that verifies their use to me, I am starting to utilize more strings, because I realize that I am over estimating my opponent most times, making myself believe that they will hold everything that I do instead of trusting my own mix up capabilities. :P::P::6::[P]: and
:9::P::[[P]]:, will definitely work well for me.

A set-up I catch myself using a lot is :p+k:(I love the sitdown stun opportunities and the range is nice) :3::P::P: and then I mix it up from there, I will either CB, mid kick launch, or I will bait a hold and :41236::H+P: and juggle or combo throw. And if the counter the double mid punch ( :3::P::P:) I will only do :3::P: and repeat the same option as listed above.

I have also found some success mixing up :P::P::2::K: because of the ambiguous mix up that lies in there.

But I guess my rambling is all just leading up to this question I have, as you can see in my vids most of the time when I land a hit, I string punches (mostly mid :oops:) stunning until I launch. basically the way I play is Stun-Stun-Launch or Stun-Launch, and they are all single hit stuns, should I continue playing this way? or should I stun with short strings to open up CB opportunities? Because I notice the way I play shuts out the chances of a CB unless I counter hit.
Well here's the thing. Hayate is all single hit stuns. Look at his combos. 6pk knocksdown, 9pp knocks down, 4p string mixups all knockdown, h3pp will launch in stun (both hits), and that's it. What does that leave you with for stun strings? 6pp, 3pp, or your pp strings (pp, ppp, pp6p, pp2k).

You have to rely on your single hit stuns, like 9p, 3p, and 3k... and you have to play this way if you're considering driving to a critical burst. There are other ways to play Hayate and you should learn to be fluent in both. One is playing patient, fishing for a counter hit stun and choosing how many stuns you want to do before you decide to launch or critical burst.

Hayate can CB in 4 hits (3 stuns, 4th hit is critical burst). So you can stun launch, stun stun launch, or stun stun stun launch/cb. This is what you do when you want more damaging juggles. This is also why I can't stress enough how important it is to get comfortable with doing 3pp, 33k. It is guaranteed after you get that sitdown stun so that means you do not have to guess, you do not have to work, you simply win that encounter because you landed the sitdown stun. You get the launcher and depending on the weight you get your bnb juggle. Doing a CB risks you getting held or worse, blocked.

The second playstyle is rushdown pressure. In this you become reliant on guard breaking your opponent with 66p+k variant guard breaks to get them to either lock up, or start sidestepping. If they lock up, that simply gives you a free 236T, 7k that you can play around with. You want them at the wall so use that guard break pressure to keep pushing them. If you feel the time is right, throw the 236T.

Now while you might catch sidesteps with 236T sometimes, if they start stepping the better option is to cut them off with 6pk, 4p, 1p, or 2h+k. All of these will stop them in their tracks. 6pk will get you a wall splat, 4p will give a deep ass stun, 1p will give a really neat stun, and 2h+k will always give advantage but a deeper stun on CHwhich is a reason to use it over 1p, but 1p will give a better CH stun. Utilize them. (H+K is another option that tracks and wall splats but highs can be tech crouch SS'd by Christie, Brad Wong, and others... so it's not always the best option but it does tech jump as well, so use it wisely)

Wake up game is another aspect of the aggressive style. You want your opponent to tech so really put the pressure on. Use ground pounds to get that chunk of extra damage and also pressure them with 1p's. Also you can crush wake up kicks with 214p (for lows and mids on certain frames) and 3h+k (for lows). Another option is to do those options or 66p the opponent as they get up for a nice stun. You can also bait the wake up kicks with 4p+k which you can charge up to time right.

It also includes usage of the wall game which I'll be posting after FR tomorrow. I'm not the only one who knows about it but I'll message you the info on that.

I know I detail a lot, maybe too much but I'm just making sure you've got the info. If you have any more questions just ask.
 

TakedaZX

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#9
One step at a time though man. Just work on learning your stuns worth, with and without fastest SE. Learn what stuns you can get from those stuns and what launches you can get from those stuns. Make sure you pay attention to guaranteed setups as well.

Then if you need a change of pace get comfortable with all of his guard breaks and just chain together combinations over and over between any move that ends with the 66p+k guard break, the 236k guard break, and the wind dash guard break that can come from the two strings pp2k6p+k and 4p6p+k.

That's pretty basic and you'll be doing something very productive between those two things.
 
#11
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I saw you using 236P at all (Edit: nevermind, saw it at the end of the first video...). It's a pretty good move when there's distance between you and your opponent. Fast, nice damage and knockback. I find it very useful for interrupting people who are trying to close in on me.
 

TakedaZX

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#12
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I saw you using 236P at all (Edit: nevermind, saw it at the end of the first video...). It's a pretty good move when there's distance between you and your opponent. Fast, nice damage and knockback. I find it very useful for interrupting people who are trying to close in on me.
Yea it's good move to get your opponent off you or push them back as they come in, but it is punishable unfortunately. Be careful with it.

On another note, here's some gameplay of a guy I generally pay attention to. He's a vet. Online only as far as I know but regardless he's pretty solid in that aspect.


 
#13
Wow I have seen this guy before didn't know he was a Hayate player sweet.
Also, this video has showed me thing that I can use, I like to use Hayate's special side step alot and often end up behind an opponent after hitting the :2::p+k::~::P:, but after that I don't know what to do, now I know that he has a full combo and launch that he can go into, I have practiced it and now I can't wait to get a chance to use it in actual play.

Also I really love the way he mixes in 3K and 1P in his strings, those tools seem to be exactly what I need to start tripping up my opponents.
 

TakedaZX

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#15
Wow I have seen this guy before didn't know he was a Hayate player sweet.
Also, this video has showed me thing that I can use, I like to use Hayate's special side step alot and often end up behind an opponent after hitting the :2::p+k::~::P:, but after that I don't know what to do, now I know that he has a full combo and launch that he can go into, I have practiced it and now I can't wait to get a chance to use it in actual play.

Also I really love the way he mixes in 3K and 1P in his strings, those tools seem to be exactly what I need to start tripping up my opponents.
Haha yea it's deadly, I used to do it a lot but once I dropped Hayate for a short period of time the muscle memory went away. Make sure you keep that as a bread and butter and study to find moves from your opponents that are -11 or higher on block. You can get a guaranteed 3k punishment in to a on backturned full combo if you're on point and it'll lead to big results if you can do it consistently.

3K and 1P are very useful. If you put your opponent in a sitdown or trip stun you will get the full height off of your next juggle. So in other words if you get a single stun like say CH 3k then you 1p, you can get a full launch height off of whatever launch you use at that point. If you opponent slow escapes you still have a 50/50 shot off of 33k or 8p. They will both land after 1p's trip stun regardless of slow escape but they still can be held.

Utilize this and you'll maximize you damage output for stun to trip combos.
 
#16
Here we go, I feel like these videos are able to show how much I am progressing in my Hayate play. I made sure to show the vids where I tried to use his guard breaks, abused his :236::H+P: and I even have a video where I landed that back turned combo which I had to throw in.

 

TakedaZX

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#17
Very good, nice improvement but lets talk about a few things in particular.

First Match - Very good on the Ceiling Toss but remember on mid weights but always roll with 6p+kp+k 8p pp6pk as a regular bnb or 66p+k 8p pp6pk at the wall for the wall splat juggle.

As for the rest of the matches there's a few problematic strings and moves you used which you should refrain from throwing out without thinking. 6pp is fine if you're trying to catch you opponent letting go of their guard after 6p but other than that remember how unsafe it is (-11). You can be thrown for that everytime. Same goes for KK, but KK only gives you a knockdown anyway. Use it wisely if you just want the knockdown, but otherwise just use K as a mix-up.

66KKK and 214PPP are something you need to be careful with as well. 66KKK is not something that's worth being recognized as useful. The first hit launches low and only gives you the follow ups. The second kick despite being horizantal, does not track. The stun from 66KK is garbage and over all the string is -11,-25, -11. Mix-up and bait a hold with 66KK if you want to but other than that stay away from it outside of juggles.

214PPP is the same deal except it's truly useful. Use it at your own risk because it's slow. Make sure you really fish for a launch on counter hit from the last hit only. It gives an amazing height and allows you to really play around with your juggles.

Last but not least be careful on wind dashing in on you opponent on wake up. It doesn't crush mid kicks like Brad's Laydown Stance.
 
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#18
Here we go, I feel like these videos are able to show how much I am progressing in my Hayate play. I made sure to show the vids where I tried to use his guard breaks, abused his :236::H+P: and I even have a video where I landed that back turned combo which I had to throw in.
6P and 1P are good pokes but I think they are better used as a defensive pokes if you have to stick 6P out there delay his P follow up. Better offensive pokes you should try using are P, 3K, 7P(safe if you space it correctly) and 66P+K. When you rush them down your best options are his running P/grab and his WD.
 
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TakedaZX

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#20

Got another quick match against a random for you guys. Nothing big, just trying to show up a bit of setups and I was also just trying to get over my constant issue of falling to low holds and tech crouches in general. Hope ya'll enjoy.
 
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