Hayate Video and critique thread

Zeo

Well-Known Member
Main Character
Gamertag
ZeoRebirth
I don't usually do this but yeah, I'd like some critique from my recent Hayate video as well.


(Nevermind what looks like random 9Ks and 7Ks. Those are just my 236ks and 214ks failing to come out.)
 
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Tenryuga

Well-Known Member
Bronx, NY
Main Character
Hayate
3DS Friend Code
2535-4658-1818
PSN ID
Tenryuga
What are the songs you use in the vid?

PPPP - You got counterblown for attacking out of obvious disadvantage. Must have been an error on your part though because I know you know that doesn't fly lol.

Great use of frame advantage and the environment in Home. You already got your punishment for doing so but don't whiff moves like 4P or 66P. Some players may have been able to react to your attempt at the 66PP charge midscreen with a sidestep or hold. Still it was a great decision on your part to cover the whiff with that. Same goes for 4P with it's followups.

Really nice use of 214K. You use it a hell of a lot better than I do.

I raged when you missed that BT setup and you probably face-palmed too. That scenario doesn't happen very often lol.

Try to take as many punishment opportunities as you can with Hayates 236T. You probably didn't know Mila's 6PP was -11 on guard but yeah. 72 damage is no joke bro.

Other than that I've nothing for you. You clearly know what you are doing and what you want with Hayate. At this point improvement looks like it would come from you strengthening your solid fundamentals. At least from my viewpoint, GGs.
 

Zeo

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Main Character
Gamertag
ZeoRebirth
What are the songs you use in the vid?

PPPP - You got counterblown for attacking out of obvious disadvantage. Must have been an error on your part though because I know you know that doesn't fly lol.

Yeah that was a failed sidestep attempt after the string. lol.

Great use of frame advantage and the environment in Home. You already got your punishment for doing so but don't whiff moves like 4P or 66P. Some players may have been able to react to your attempt at the 66PP charge midscreen with a sidestep or hold. Still it was a great decision on your part to cover the whiff with that. Same goes for 4P with it's followups.

Typically when I throw out 4P I use the 6P to cover space from a distance, people like to press buttons after they see it and I'd say 7 times out of 10 the punch will hit them, in the case they block I get the advantage. Few pepole actually wait for the followup to hold or sidestep. In a few other cases I use the followups because for whatever reason people like to use highs after they see 4P whiff so the K followup clenches that along with the 2nd kick of it snagging some sidesteps as well. As far as 6P goes? Yeah I goofed and had to follow it up or I would have been screwed.

Really nice use of 214K. You use it a hell of a lot better than I do.

I've been trying to make it a point to use this more, it's got decent range and most people don't know it's safe, let alone advantage. I've been abusing his advantage lately, dunno I came back after my vacation and my style just kind of changed.

I raged when you missed that BT setup and you probably face-palmed too. That scenario doesn't happen very often lol.

I landed it in a few of the other matches. You better believe I facepalmed and Galen did too. I knew it was coming, my 3K came out as 2K. GG.

Try to take as many punishment opportunities as you can with Hayates 236T. You probably didn't know Mila's 6PP was -11 on guard but yeah. 72 damage is no joke bro.

That I didn't know. Yeah my punishing with 236T I have to work on. I press the grab button so fast trying to punish it usually comes out as 6T. And that's when I don't just go autopilot and 6T.

Other than that I've nothing for you. You clearly know what you are doing and what you want with Hayate. At this point improvement looks like it would come from you strengthening your solid fundamentals. At least from my viewpoint, GGs.

Thanks. I don't know if I'll post the next vid when I upload it. We'll see. Oh yeah, vid songs.

Fight 1: At Toyotsu-Cho Suita City (KOF Maximum Impact 2 OST)
Fight 2-3: Faylan - Soukyu no Hikari (Instrumental) (BlazBlue Continuum Shift)
Fight 4: You are under my control (DOA Dimensions Remix of Tina's DOA2 theme)
 
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Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
I don't usually do this but yeah, I'd like some critique from my recent Hayate video as well.


(Nevermind what looks like random 9Ks and 7Ks. Those are just my 236ks and 214ks failing to come out.)
I only watched 3 of the fights.

As far as you using Hayate you did the best that any competent Hayate can do in DOA5. You seem to have taken the approach that I have with him. Some advice I can give with that is to stop completing predictable strings. Even if that said string will give you frame advantage. I am talking more so about his chargeable strings. He can't cancel them and it's clearly visible when he's going to go into it. They are good to do but not as much as you are using them.

I also can tell that your knowledge with fighting against Mila is limited. I feel the same way about the Mila player playing against Hayate. They didn't punish ANYTHING you did that was unsafe because of that they lost matches against you that they could've easily won. If you paced yourself in some of your matches they wouldn't have been as close as they were.

I know getting to someone's back with Hayate's command SSP is random but you need to get the recognition of when you get back there. He gets a guaranteed CB when you get back there.

Good stuff, man. Upload your other vids if you can.
 

Zeo

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Main Character
Gamertag
ZeoRebirth
I'm probably going to regret this but I'll post the other one here too.


Try not to rip me to shreds. At this point we'd been playing for hours and started getting tired and a lot more reckless. That last match in particular was the last match we'd played and I started getting really antsy and just going in and being very impatient. But I'll note a couple things.

- If I wake up and do 6K, I wanted a forward tech into wakeup kick.
- If I pause in the middle of a string, there was a lag spike (particularly in the 2nd match.)
 

Tulkas

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Premium Donor
Madrid, Spain
Main Character
Hayate
PSN ID
Tulkas-DOA
I know getting to someone's back with Hayate's command SSP is random but you need to get the recognition of when you get back there. He gets a guaranteed CB when you get back there.
Hey! Help me to learn that guaranteed CB please!!! I didn't know it! Please! :D I get that setup very often and apply a damaging combo but not a CB which would be more damaging! :D Please! :D Do you know an URL for learning it???
 

Tulkas

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Premium Donor
Madrid, Spain
Main Character
Hayate
PSN ID
Tulkas-DOA
I don't usually do this but yeah, I'd like some critique from my recent Hayate video as well.

I've started to play Hayate just one month ago so there're few improvements I can remark. In fact you have teached me some things to me such as more use of expert mid kick hold (you did in first round and more) :)

BTW, we use same mercyless wall job heheh ;)

I think using more slow escape than critical holds can be good for you. For example, perhaps using SE you could avoid eating PB at second round at first match. Also I noticed you connected critical holds just twice in the entire video...

Perhaps you could win last round at Dojo match by using SS and/or back wind dash in order to avoid frequent Mila's front flip kick you eated a lot in entire video. And this is also opportunity to emphasize what Allan Paris said. In round 2 at second match you catched Mila in BT using Hayate SS but you inflicted few damage in comparision guaranteed massive damage Hayate has from there, if it was an input error you should check what's goin on, perhaps you are using a some damage controller or you're playing too nervious, or who knows what...

Finally BT 4k follow up failed at 8:08, I guess you failed 236k or 214k again, but these moves have much less sense as follow ups because there because are slow in comparision to same or similar follow up as used at 8:20 which I think likely also works.

Good stuff. I'll be waiting next vid. :)
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Hey! Help me to learn that guaranteed CB please!!! I didn't know it! Please! :D I get that setup very often and apply a damaging combo but not a CB which would be more damaging! :D Please! :D Do you know an URL for learning it???
Pardon me for not knowing exactly which one it is I haven't played this game in several months. After you land his Command SSP BT it's either; 3K, 3PP, CB or 3PP CB. I believe it's the the first one though. You'll have to check it.
 
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Gultigargar

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Pardon me for not knowing exactly which one it is I haven't played this game in several months. After you land his Command SSP BT it's either; 3K, 3PP, CB or 3PP CB. I believe it's the the first one though. You'll have to check it.
I tested this one with a friend a while back, and it's actually not 100% guaranteed. If the opponent stagger escapes very quickly, they turn around before the sitdown stun hits, which leads to a front-turned sitdown, rather than a backturned one. And, again, if they stagger escape a front-turned sitdown, then they recover before the CB can hit.

That being said, stagger escaping that setup is not easy, so most of the time you can probably land it anyway.
 
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Allan Paris

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There's a few sit down stuns that are like this. Where you can SE before big damage is done to you. 1 move in particular is Bayman's Gravity Hammer (P+K). You can actually SE that stun and prevent what he does to you after it. In reality, though, you'll never SE it fast enough because you have to be prepared to get hit by it, for one. Secondly, you'll never reach the point of SE'ing it on the fly because of how deep the stun is.

This setup acts the same way, the Hayate player never knows when hell get back to his opponents back. So you can bet your life on it this his opponent won't know either. So for them to react to the CB setup and get out of it, they need to be prepared to get hit by it, and they must meet the SE level immediately to get out of it. Sitting in sparring/testing, yes, you can get of it if try hard enough, on the fly mid match and you get hit by it is 2 completely different things. So you are going to get CB'd every time he gets back there.

On a sidenote: this was actually a general discussion before about stuns in this game: If you are able to get out of a stun guaranteeing something is it really guaranteed? Though if players are not capable of SE'ing at the highest level can the stun be consider as an unholdable stun?

These 2 situations that I am talking about are prime examples of the discussion.
 

Tulkas

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Premium Donor
Madrid, Spain
Main Character
Hayate
PSN ID
Tulkas-DOA
So you can bet your life on it his opponent won't know. So for them to react to it the CB setup and get out of it, they need to be prepared to get hit by it, and they must meet the SE level immediately to get out of it. Sitting in sparring/testing, yes, you can get of it if try hard enough, on the fly mid match and you get hit by it is 2 completely different things. So you are going to get CB'd every time he gets back there.
Since I've watched EMPEROR_COW tutorial I started to use SE with nice results. But I don't have more knowledge about it, so I don't know what did you mean with "SE level" in "meet the SE level immediately... Can you refer a page for me to learn?
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
The CB setup on BT from SSP hitting is just to follow with 3PP. If you 3K before 3PP the threshold will be broken. 3K 3PP is a standalone setup on BT that doesn't require you to hit with SSP.
Thanks.

Since I've watched EMPEROR_COW tutorial I started to use SE with nice results. But I don't have more knowledge about it, so I don't know what did you mean with "SE level" in "meet the SE level immediately... Can you refer a page for me to learn?

Outside of his tutorial (I didn't watch it) I am not sure if there's a thread on the info. I doubt that it is, though. I would imagine that this would've been covered in his tutorial. People seem to like his work so I know it can't be missing too much from the topics he's covered given the players he's talked to for the tutorials.

You can SE slow, fast, or fastest.

SE'ing slow and you'll be hit by follow ups that are not guaranteed while you are in a sit-down-stun or stagger stun.

SE'ing fast may or may not prevent a guaranteed follow up. It depends on the frame advantage of the stun. SE'ing fast can get you out of quite a few setups from characters. Eliot for example and his sit-down stun from 3KP, SE'ing fast you can prevent any follow that will hit you if you block while SE'ing.

SE'ing fastest will prevent a lot of deep stuns like Bayman's sit-down-stun P+K or Hayate's BT CB setup from his Command SSP from having guaranteed follow ups. The issue with SE'ing at the fastest level to stop these stuns from having guaranteed follow ups is that you need to be SE'ing at the fastest level the moment you are touched by the move.

Which would mean you need to be prepared to be hit by a move, so in sparring it's really easy to get out this stuff SE'ing at the fastest level because you know it's coming and thus you are prepared for it. Then the world changes when you get into an actual fight. When you get to your opponent's back with his Command SSP trust me that no one will get out this setup, especially when you have the recognition to go straight into 3PP after it.
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
Main Character
PSN ID
TakedaZX
I was actually speaking with Zeo about this the other day. You can guarantee the set up but never by 8p+kp. The issue is distance.

What I mean by that is (some of you know this and some don't), every move has a set amount of active frames where the attack will be registered as a hit. That being said, a move can hit in its later active frames so that explains why at range some moves can be made safer or to have more advantage (I.E. Brad Wong's 236P = -8 in general and -3 at tip, that's why it's sometimes unpunishable, I.E. 2 Hayate's SSK is neutral on block but +1 at tip, I.E. 3, Hayate's 2H+K +10 upclose and +11 at tip, go test these to see for yourself).

That being said, it goes without saying 7P applies to that. So basically the issue is, 3PP already kind of pushes opponents in away in general, but 8p+kp does the same on its impact so that means now that CB isn't going to hit because he's simply too far away for it to impact on that first active frame... so in turn it can be SE'd since it's such a tight set up.

3K on the other hand (and I dare say a very well placed 7P will give a better chance since 3K doesn't push the opponent away at all and 7P is a whole different kind of BT stun. 3K especially works wel for punishing extremely unsafe BT moves. 8p for himself is a good example. It's -11 I believe, which means if Hayate (1P) gets 8p blocked in a mirror match then he tries to block his opponent (2P, who is at advantage, +11 to be exact), the Hayate at +11 (2P) can punish with 3K, 3PP, 7P guaranteed because they're both right on each other. (I don't know any other situations because Hayate is usually the only one as unsafe as this in most BT situations).

But that doesn't mean 8p+kp, 3pp, 7p isn't viable. On top of it being a spur of the moment situation, most people give up right away because they think there's no way out... but if they do so happen to start SEing your CB, 33K is still guaranteed off of it and 8p (less damage) becomes an option as well so if this person is SEing you, these options will always hit. 9K will most likely land as well but the damage is the same as 33K with a lower height and the hitbox is sometimes unreliable after sitdown stuns.

For the purpose of style by the way, 8p+k, 3k, 7p, 4p6p+k~k, BT pp6pk works and it matches with the most damage set up off of 33K which is the only other launcher that will hit. 33K is better at the wall (33K, h3PP, 33KK).
 

Tenryuga

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Bronx, NY
Main Character
Hayate
3DS Friend Code
2535-4658-1818
PSN ID
Tenryuga
@Jyakotu

Tone down the H+KK and PPKK. It's not really a go to pressure string or approach move. He's got better options for both things. In that first match against Ayane you showed you have patience so that was good; It's necessary to do well with Hayate. That 9PP was glorious as well; Alot of Hayate mains neglect that move for spacing and whiff punishment so I was glad to see you make use of it. Good stuff.

Tips I have for you in regards to spacing is to watch your opponent and make sure every move you put on the board has a purpose. In the vid vs Ayane you put his command sidestep on the screen like 4 or 5 times in neutral then get drill kicked. Alot of the tools Ayane uses in spacing track so I'm not sure what you were trying to do with this; There is no mind game or anything for Ayane think about.

That's all I have for now. Basically make better decisions in the neutral which will come as you play and get acquainted with his toolset.
 
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