Hayate's OPinionated Wishlist

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Nothing is in place of it. No new kicks that I know of. The hit levels and properties have changed for the kicks he does have. Oh yeah, he does have a new kick; 214K it puts him at +2. But here's the kicker, no pun intended. It's a ranged mid kick because doing it up close is out of the question. It has a lengthy start up. It is also a mid kick just like his popular 3F+K. So you can bet your bottom dollar that you'll rarely if ever get your frame advantage from it. it will get held because of the familiar 3F+K.

If it hits, you only score a knockdown. On block it is ok for the +2 but he can't do anything with +2 no way. So your better off with 3F+K at least on hit you get a stun, it has follow ups, and on block the situation goes back to neutral.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Nothing is in place of it. No new kicks that I know of. The hit levels and properties have changed for the kicks he does have. Oh yeah, he does have a new kick; 214K it puts him at +2. But here's the kicker, no pun intended. It's a ranged mid kick because doing it up close is out of the question. It has a lengthy start up. It is also a mid kick just like his popular 3F+K. So you can bet your bottom dollar that you'll rarely if ever get your frame advantage from it. it will get held because of the familiar 3F+K.

If it hits, you only score a knockdown. On block it is ok for the +2 but he can't do anything with +2 no way. So your better off with 3F+K at least on hit you get a stun, it has follow ups, and on block the situation goes back to neutral.
He always had 214k since Ein, but they flipped the notation in DOA4 i think, it use to be 236k. I don't think it ever had advantage tho, and I just looked at it now. If it's the same as it was in the alpha demo as far as height, it's a lot lower.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Yeah Ein had a similar kick. Hayate now has one of his own. I don't think Hayate had the kick before. When Ein used it it was safe in DOA4.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Yeah Ein had a similar kick. Hayate now has one of his own. I don't think Hayate had the kick before. When Ein used it it was safe in DOA4.
Nah it was there I remember, I don't think it was safe though, either that or I tried to follow up when I shouldn't have been.
 

Perfect Legend

Active Member
U'm 6p+k, p+k option tracks and it hits mid so you cant crouch or sidestep. So when you got them wanting to block that is where the grab and the high punch come into play and the high punch guard breaks. I don't know why you are saying its useless because it doesnt guarantee him an attack. Frame Advantage is what it gains and I can keep pressure. Why is this a bad thing?
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
U'm 6p+k, p+k option tracks and it hits mid so you cant crouch or sidestep. So when you got them wanting to block that is where the grab and the high punch come into play and the high punch guard breaks. I don't know why you are saying its useless because it doesnt guarantee him an attack. Frame Advantage is what it gains and I can keep pressure. Why is this a bad thing?
It's not that the dash itself is useless, It's just considering Hayate is the same old DOA4 himself, it doesn't really make a difference. "Oh, I got the guard break on him now, now i'm gunna use the same 6p, 6p, 1k, 4k6k_8p stun game that I've been doing since day one, 7 years ago."

Now if we could say... throw out at 6p+k, high, get a guard break, then throw out another dash, in quick enough succession to crush any high punch retaliation then get a f+k, or p+k launch from it, or depending on the person, go for a grab on someone expecting to block... then I'd find usefulness there, if that's the case then I see how it is. Even still, 236f~2k was a useful tool, so having that in there some way would be nice.

Aside from the dash, I don't know how the safeness has changed for him on his other moves, but I've heard is 6pk is now safe. Also we know 9pp is now a 2 in 1 though I don't know if it's safe. Speaking mixups, his pp combo mixups have changed but pp hasn't always been reliable. Enough pp's and some high holds are bound to come out. Not to mention the mixups added were more mid punches(pppp)(pp4p6p)(3pp). Everything else is exactly the same, except 1kp was lost. They could probably throw some 1k6pp_1k6pk_1k6p2k back in atleast... doesn't have to be Ein's exact moves but something similar to work with.

Ayane's got more spins and fancy moves, Kasumi's got here warp combos on lock, and Hayabusa's got his Onygoin stance options with a new air grab, all enjoyable things. Hayate's got a gimmicky dash that only cancels his charged moves. Nice but, just a lot less than what they've got. I'm not saying I'm not going to use Hayate, but he's lookin real weak honestly.
 

Perfect Legend

Active Member
It's not that "it" itself is useless, It's just considering Hayate is the same old DOA4 himself, it doesn't really make a difference. "Oh, I got the guard break on him now, now i'm gunna use the same 6p, 6p, 1k, 4kk(now 4k6k)_8p that I've been doing since day one 7 years ago."

I don't know how the frame advantage has changed for him on his other moves, all I've heard is 6pk is now safe. But one safe move doesn't change everything. Not to mention, he's lost some of his best lows 1kp_1kk, and 66pk. Gotta go to school continue this later

he still has 66p2k also 1kp wasn't good. 1kk was ok but not really even good. What do you expect? I don't understand it its like in DOA characters are expected to play 100% totally different but its ok for Ryu and Ken to play the exact same for 20 years.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
he still has 66p2k also 1kp wasn't good. 1kk was ok but not really even good. What do you expect? I don't understand it its like in DOA characters are expected to play 100% totally different but its ok for Ryu and Ken to play the exact same for 20 years.
I updated that post, and i didn't play a street fighter game til last year man, so I wouldn't understand the whole deal to as much of an extent as you could, but I think I see what you're getting at i think. You're right they don't have to play totally different but like I said in the last post with the other 3 ninjas, they've taken steps up. Hayate is in the same place he was.

1kp was useful in 3.1, so I've seen, with the properties it had, and back on 1k6p change ups, Ein found good use for them, and since he's not destined to return again, now would be a good time to give those to Hayate. They don't necessarily have to be the same, like maybe some different poses and heights. I wouldn't mind 1k6pp being LMH, or LMM, and 1k6pk would definitely be LMM, and 1k6p2k would be self explanatory.
 

Nate

Active Member
I wish Hayate's :3::3::K::K: would force tech, at almost any height level. The 2nd kick going downwards should push them to the ground and to tech.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
I wish Hayate's :3::3::K::K: would force tech, at almost any height level. The 2nd kick going downwards should push them to the ground and to tech.
Yea, It'd be awesome if it was a hard knockdown like Tina's 6H+K. Apparently she's the only one who's fat enough to make the person too make you unable to get up when you get slammed to the ground.
 

Zeo

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm really late to the party, but I'll post my own personal list of buffs and changes I think Hayate should get to become a solid tourney worthy fighter.

:hayate:
Strikes (Frame Changes):
- All of Hayate's charge attacks and strings with chargeable finishers should be +10 on block, not +1. There is literally no reward for throwing out a 30+ frame mid punch charge attack as they are now.
- :9::P::P: Needs to go back to DOA3.1 status. +2 on block. Hayate has 0 frame traps and this move starts off with a high which can be crushed. Also only the 2nd hit should cause a wall splat.
- :1::P: is -7, punishable on normal hit without a followup. This is bad, it's a bit fast to give advantage but it should be buffed up to around -3 on NH. Being punished for landing a hit is ludicrous in any situation.
- :6::P: I recall being safer in DOA3 as well, I think it should be buffed up to around -5 on block, the followup however should remain unsafe.
- :2:/:8: :P+K::P: Needs to go back to Alpha build status. More evasiveness, unholdable back turn stun or sit-down stun if he doesn't get to the opponent's back. This move was needlessly nerfed.
- :3::P::P: and :6::K: (With Hayate at BT) should guarantee a CB if the opponent is in critical stun after the 2nd hit.
- :4::P::P: should be +1 or +2 on block.
- :8::K: Needs to be unholdable again, why it isn't is beyond me. Amazingly slow mid kick launcher which is easily slow escaped.
- :3::K: should be +1 on block.
- :1::K: Should be safe, -4 instead of -10 and it should have the properties of a low attack. (IE beating out OHs)
- :2::H+K: should continue to stagger the opponent, but cause a trip stun if landed at close range.
- :3::H+K::K::P: should return to DOA4 status, delayable followups.
- :2::3::6::K: Needs to be a guard break and +5 on block instead of -5.
- :2::1::4::K: Needs to be a guard break and +15 on block instead of +2, and should cause a ground bounce on both NH and CH with potential followups.

Strikes (Other Changes):
- :2::K: should cause a deeper unholdable trip-stun on both CH and in stun, and should regain it's followup from DOA4.
- :4::H+K: needs to come back, needs to be safe and needs to track. As does it's wind dash variant, but it can remain unsafe if done from the wind dash.
- :6::P+K: :F+P+K: (I think that's the motion, the uppercut from the dash) needs to be a guard break and give around +3 frame advantage.
- :4::K::6::K: should be a 2-in-1 launcher, and faster.

Throw Changes:
- :2::3::6::F+P: should be +11 instead of +9 and guarantee a 100+ damage BT combo.
- :P+K::F+P: should be an OH.

Other Changes:
:6::P+K: should have a teleport followup to get to the opponent's back, has Hayate's old wind dash had in DOA4.
:8:/:8::P+K: should have a :K: followup, a low kick that causes a trip stun on CH and crushes high attacks.

And lastly probably the most controversial request of them all.

- Bring the DOA3.1 Cartwheel back. Give it the :2::2:/:8::8::P+K: motion and give it the same insane sidestepping properties it had in DOA3.1. However, make it throwable and only snuffed by the most circular of tracking moves.

That's all I got.
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
It really hurts that one of my main characters has gotting hit with a nerf bat big time :(

They need to bring back Hayate's awesome throw from DOA4 :3::3::F::+::P: and pretty much everything Zeo & TakendaZX posted.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm really late to the party, but I'll post my own personal list of buffs and changes I think Hayate should get to become a solid tourney worthy fighter.

:hayate:
Strikes (Frame Changes):
- All of Hayate's charge attacks and strings with chargeable finishers should be +10 on block, not +1. There is literally no reward for throwing out a 30+ frame mid punch charge attack as they are now.
Good Idea but I think +10 might be a bit much, though I won't throw it off. He DOES need significant advantage off of those, that being said :6::P+K::P: (the +7 guard break from the wind dash), should guaranteed some stun game..., and I could see the +7 coming to all his other guard breaks and giving that one... like idk +15 or above. Regardless, great idea.
- :9::P::P: Needs to go back to DOA3.1 status. +2 on block. Hayate has 0 frame traps and this move starts off with a high which can be crushed. Also only the 2nd hit should cause a wall splat.
I thought It did wall splat but if not, I agree. I see neutral or maybe -1 from this though, since it's already a 2 in 1 if the first hit lands, plus the second punch is out pretty quick.
- :1::P: is -7, punishable on normal hit without a followup. This is bad, it's a bit fast to give advantage but it should be buffed up to around -3 on NH. Being punished for landing a hit is ludicrous in any situation.
I'll reopen my other idea to tag onto this. :1::P::P: should be able to be charged into a guard break, maybe for +3 or +5 so that the whole string is more threatening period.
- :6::P: I recall being safer in DOA3 as well, I think it should be buffed up to around -5 on block, the followup however should remain unsafe.
Was it -5? Interesting. I'm willing to see it through but, maybe a lil less safe than -5 unless all the other characters followed suit behind this trend. I want Hayate to be strong but I don't want him too strong so that it's a repeat of Busa in DOA4.
- :2:/:8: :P+K::P: Needs to go back to Alpha build status. More evasiveness, unholdable back turn stun or sit-down stun if he doesn't get to the opponent's back. This move was needlessly nerfed.
Yes.
- :3::P::P: and :6::K: (With Hayate at BT) should guarantee a CB if the opponent is in critical stun after the 2nd hit.
YES!
- :4::P::P: should be +1 or +2 on block.
FFS YES!
- :8::K: Needs to be unholdable again, why it isn't is beyond me. Amazingly slow mid kick launcher which is easily slow escaped.
In DOA4.1 it was a high... for whatever dumb reason... once they made it mid, they made it holdable. That's their reasoning I suppose but yea I'd like to see it as unholdable.
- :3::K: should be +1 on block.
I don't mind this.
- :1::K: Should be safe, -4 instead of -10 and it should have the properties of a low attack. (IE beating out OHs)
Honestly, I want this moved to 1H+K and it has to be mid. He needs it as is, I can explain why if you'd like.
- :2::H+K: should continue to stagger the opponent, but cause a trip stun if landed at close range.
- :3::H+K::K::P: should return to DOA4 status, delayable followups.
Eh... yea I can see it.
- :2::3::6::K: Needs to be a guard break and +5 on block instead of -5.
PL said this awhile ago, and said he talked to Shimbori about it. If it doesn't show up eventually, I'm gunna be pissed.
- :2::1::4::K: Needs to be a guard break and +15 on block instead of +2, and should cause a ground bounce on both NH and CH with potential followups.
This I can DEF agree with. Reason being that it's easily interrupted and +2 is dumb. If you land this on block you DESERVE something.


Strikes (Other Changes):
- :2::K: should cause a deeper unholdable trip-stun on both CH and in stun, and should regain it's followup from DOA4.
- :4::H+K: needs to come back, needs to be safe and needs to track. As does it's wind dash variant, but it can remain unsafe if done from the wind dash.
Speaking of this... :6::H+K: should return as well. It's nice to use as a trip up when people know you want to 3H+K over their low kicks. Double High 2 in 1, and most of all, safe in 4. I love this move, and the vocals they used for that.
- :6::P+K: :P+K: (I think that's the motion, the uppercut from the dash) needs to be a guard break and give around +3 frame advantage.
I'd love for it to be as it was in 4, a beautiful charge move... but I can dig this. I really don't like this move as it is now.
- :4::K::6::K: should be a 2-in-1 launcher, and faster.

Throw Changes:
- :2::3::6::F+P: should be +11 instead of +9 and guarantee a 100+ damage BT combo.
Frankly... I don't like guaranteed back combos period. Leifangs is dumb and this trend that's been started from it is annoying as well. I'd like more if the guaranteed back combos were taken away and guaranteed LAUNCHERS were given... but whatever, good idea in the system of the game being as is.

#Support

- :P+K::F+P: should be an OH.
As long as they switch this grab animation with 33H+P, Idc. I find it useful, but it'd be nice to have an OH for

Other Changes:
:6::P+K: should have a teleport followup to get to the opponent's back, has Hayate's old wind dash had in DOA4.
This would work best if they brought back his old wind dash. 4P+K6 could be his transition into his new one and 7P+K could transition into his old one. If that happened, it'd be simple to get the wind dash out.
:8:/:8::P+K: should have a :K: followup, a low kick that causes a trip stun on CH and crushes high attacks.
The Kick I see for this is Kasumi's second kick from :6::H+K::2::K:. Check out the kick and tell me what you think.

And lastly probably the most controversial request of them all.

- Bring the DOA3.1 Cartwheel back. Give it the :2::2:/:8::8::P+K: motion and give it the same insane sidestepping properties it had in DOA3.1. However, make it throwable and only snuffed by the most circular of tracking moves.
In my honest opinion... I don't think this move has place in this game with his already good sidestep. If they rebuff it, then he'll be fine. I'd like to see DOA4's 88K though. I like that move but... whatever.


That's all I got.

Overall, me and you share some views and you seem to have a better understanding of where frame traps should land than me. I wouldn't know where to start, but like I always tell people I want balance. I want my character to be good. I also want your character to be good, as well as that guys, and his girlfriends character. Anyway, we should talk more about this stuff. Hmu.
 

Zeo

Well-Known Member
Good Idea but I think +10 might be a bit much, though I won't throw it off. He DOES need significant advantage off of those, that being said :6::P+K::P: (the +7 guard break from the wind dash), should guaranteed some stun game..., and I could see the +7 coming to all his other guard breaks and giving that one... like idk +15 or above. Regardless, great idea.
I feel as if the mid punch should give more advantage than the wind dash charge as while the charge is a high punch and can be crushed, it's harder to see coming and he has other options from the dash where as when you see him charge his finishers it's guaranteed to be a mid punch and much easier to react to. (sidestep, hold, etc.) So I'll still say it should give more advantage than the high punch GB from the dash.


I thought It did wall splat but if not, I agree. I see neutral or maybe -1 from this though, since it's already a 2 in 1 if the first hit lands, plus the second punch is out pretty quick.
I'll give it neutral I suppose, but there are faster attacks that give advantage and it would be a legit frametrap. I'd still prefer the +2 from DOA3.1. It's not as if it does that much damage stand alone even if it does land on the opponent. And the frame advantage would only be if you finished the string. If you canceled it to go for the stun game and it was blocked, you'd still be at -3 just like now.

I'll reopen my other idea to tag onto this. :1::P::P: should be able to be charged into a guard break, maybe for +3 or +5 so that the whole string is more threatening period.
I'm not exactly against this idea but good players already react to the 2nd punch of the string. I don't see the charge being too useful but maybe charging the 2nd punch could catch some players off guard. Sure, I'll be in favor of it.


Was it -5? Interesting. I'm willing to see it through but, maybe a lil less safe than -5 unless all the other characters followed suit behind this trend. I want Hayate to be strong but I don't want him too strong so that it's a repeat of Busa in DOA4.
It almost seemed like it had frame advantage in 3.1 honestly from what I remember seeing. I'll admit -5 might be a little much, at the same time though I don't think it'll make him overpowered at all. :4::H+K: was his best poke in 4, and it was safe.

Honestly, I want this moved to 1H+K and it has to be mid. He needs it as is, I can explain why if you'd like.
I didn't mean it should be a low attack, I mean he crouches on the ground in order to do this kick. It should have the crouching properties of a low attack and snuff OHs while still being a high crush mid.

The Kick I see for this is Kasumi's second kick from :6::H+K::2::K:. Check out the kick and tell me what you think.
I just pictured his :2::H+K: as the followup, that could work too though. Whatever it would be, it would need to be a high crush.

In my honest opinion... I don't think this move has place in this game with his already good sidestep. If they rebuff it, then he'll be fine. I'd like to see DOA4's 88K though. I like that move but... whatever.
If his :2:/:8::P+K::P: returned to alpha status then I agree, the cartwheel isn't needed.

Overall, me and you share some views and you seem to have a better understanding of where frame traps should land than me. I wouldn't know where to start, but like I always tell people I want balance. I want my character to be good. I also want your character to be good, as well as that guys, and his girlfriends character. Anyway, we should talk more about this stuff. Hmu.
Playing as Akira taught me how to properly apply frame traps, where they should be applied and what tools a character has that should put the opponent in a frame trap, that being said I want balance as much as the next guy and Hayate is just one of the many characters that needs tools like the above mentioned and if everyone got those tools this game would become 3.1. Aka. the game everyone wants.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Yea, thinking about it now I can see 2H+K as the followup. I do think that 6P+KP should be more advantage because it is a high, and if you do land that, you should be rewarded with a free combo or at least stun game. His regular guard break elbows can be +10 though, I'd really like that.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Maybe they did. Got we've got wind dash transitions (at the least) and one other change most didn't ask for but I approve of. DOA4's Raijin returns.

 

Zeo

Well-Known Member
New wind dash transitions, 236K guard breaks again like it did in 4, and the old Raijin. Nice buffs, but not quite enough. His CB damage just took a serious level up but if he doesn't change much else in the frame data area he still won't be that much of a threat. These buffs are nice but not significant enough to move him out of low tier.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
New wind dash transitions, 236K guard breaks again like it did in 4, and the old Raijin. Nice buffs, but not quite enough. His CB damage just took a serious level up but if he doesn't change much else in the frame data area he still won't be that much of a threat. These buffs are nice but not significant enough to move him out of low tier.
Yea... Idk what's up man, a lot of this stuff boggles my mind. On top of all this, I really want to see the wind dash tele return though.
 

MajesticBlue

Active Member
Wow crazy, I wasn't expecting to see balance footage. Glad to see 236K guard break again. Couldn't pause it clear enough but it looked like it was plus 9 or 11? Very nice. I hope they kept his half circle forward throw in as well though. Since it has it's own uses.
 
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