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Helena's needed improvements

TRI Mike

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Ok, only from the two videos uploaded by Tecmo today and statements from Shimbori, it's obvious that Helena is utterly and completely destroyed. The game is out in a month which means TN has about two weeks to change stuff before it goes golden. We Helena players need to speak up NOW. I'm sure Bryan's messages are actually getting there but I just feel that if TN really does read these forums, it's extremely important for a thread with a list of things to be here.

I'd be thankful if Bryan, Erik and everyone who plays her post their issues in here so we can make a final list ASAP to see if we get lucky and they buff her. Helena doesn't deserve this totally retarded bs.

1) :P::P::2::K::P: Needs to be back. There simply is no window for discussion with this. It's her main juggle ender. I don't care if they remove the final punch's charging capabilities, but the move needs to get back to her repertoire. It's vital.

2) Her damage output needs to be buffed a little bit. Helena has always been little on damage but the videos today show something laughable. I clearly don't want her to do Bass/Akira damage, but she's simply not viable with this, even casually.

3) :P+K: Needs to crush. It was one of her most important moves in DOA4 and without it, her offensive game will be vastly affected.

4) Hele needs tons of safe attacks to help her transitions between Normal, Back-stance and Bokuho. It's obvious from the videos that she's probably one of the most unsafe characters in the game. Without safety, every stance transition and hell, every stupid string will be punished. And when fighting Tina, Bayman, Bass and others with strong strikes and throws, she'll have a very, very hard time.

5) I'm not sure if it's there but Bokuho duck needs to be back and allow her to crush stuff like in DOA4. It's extremely important for this move to be useful.

6) She needs single-hit sit-down stuns, moves that leave her opponents back-turned other than :214::F+P: and guarantee things out of them and I know this applies to everyone in the game but she needs to be able to reach Critical Burst fast.

These are the most important issues I see with her. This is judging from a mix between the videos, Shimbori's words and Bryan's statements in the other thread. Please, let's keep adding things and make a bunch of e-mails and tweets reach Team Ninja ASAP to see if we get lucky.

Lisa and Brad players should probably do the same.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Bring back her pp2kp, what a fucktard choice to remove it. Who the hell takes away an integral string like that? Seriously which Helena player shit in Shimbori(sp?) cheerios?
 
PhoenixVFIRE

PhoenixVFIRE

Well-Known Member
DR2K said:
Bring back her pp2kp, what a fucktard choice to remove it. Who the hell takes away an integral string like that? Seriously which Helena player shit in Shimbori(sp?) cheerios?
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lol I love this community sometimes haha....I think they did a little more than shit in his cheerios, at this point DOA4 Helena is better than DOA5 Helena even with DOA5 tools IMHO. Her ground game alone was crazy hot.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Belinea said:
I'm fine with where her she's at now.
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close20door.gif
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
:P+K: This move should crush high's but not mid's.

:P::P::2::K::P: Put it back!

:6::6::K::P::P: This kick is slow and easy as hell to read, make the kick stun on normal hit.

:4::P::2::P: Should give her frame advantage on block or +0 if the move still exists.

:P: Give her a 10 frame jab.

:P::P::2::K: Should give frame advantage on block or be +0.

:2::1::4::F::+::P:Should guarantee a hit or launch

(BT) :F::+::P: Should not be i15. Speed it up and make it guarantee something.

More safe moves

Less recovery when entering Bokuho and Bokuho Duck (:2::2:)
 
DrDogg

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
- She doesn't need PP2KP back. If they buff her damage a bit on things like 236PKP, it would have the same effect without the need to make any animation adjustments.

- The recovery on BKO and BKO Duck needs to be improved.

- Let her transition into BT without an attack or having to go into BKO first. Ayane and Brad can go into BT no problem, why can't Helena?

- Give her a BT low throw and a low throw from BKO.

- When she transitions into BKO or BT, she needs to be at advantage on block. Not huge advantage, just enough so that she can't be interrupted. Going by her DOA4 frame data, anyone with an i12 or faster 2P or mid attack will interrupt ALL of Helena's options if she enters BKO at 0. When she goes into BKO at a disadvantage, it just gets worse.

- Give her mid-kicks that are either safe or lead to something good (unholdable stun, frame advantage, etc.). In DOA4 Helena was all mid-punches. I'd hate to see that happen again...

- With P+K no longer crushing highs, BKO needs to crush just as fast as P+K did. If BKO doesn't crush instantly, it's uses become far more limited.

- BKO and BT sidesteps.

- She needs to be AT LEAST as safe as she was in DOA4... preferably more safe. She has GREAT mix-up when the opponent is stunned, but what about when you fight someone with good defense? A character should not be balanced with the assumption that top players will ever block. Just because the people in the two videos don't know how to punish (or were told not to punish?), doesn't mean other players won't take advantage of how unsafe some characters are.
 
x Sypher x

x Sypher x

Active Member
Lmao this is great, it's funny how all of the Helena fans are now uniting to fight for her to be fixed. You don't see this kinda shit for other characters. When Brad Wong was revealed hardly anyone gave 2 shits about the fact he didn't change much. Granted he has a smaller fanbase, but still. And now Helena is revealed and everyone starts to bitch and moan lmao. Just wait for a proper breakdown and then you can nitpick at what you do not like.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
x Sypher x said:
Lmao this is great, it's funny how all of the Helena fans are now uniting to fight for her to be fixed. You don't see this kinda shit for other characters. When Brad Wong was revealed hardly anyone gave 2 shits about the fact he didn't change much. Granted he has a smaller fanbase, but still. And now Helena is revealed and everyone starts to bitch and moan lmao. Just wait for a proper breakdown and then you can nitpick at what you do not like.
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Okay one more time... DrDogg already has actual experience with Helena already and he says she is bad right now. It isn't just two videos and a paragraph from the creators that has us rattled. People who have played all of the characters are saying she is bad by comparison. Okay?
 
PhoenixVFIRE

PhoenixVFIRE

Well-Known Member
x Sypher x said:
Lmao this is great, it's funny how all of the Helena fans are now uniting to fight for her to be fixed. You don't see this kinda shit for other characters. When Brad Wong was revealed hardly anyone gave 2 shits about the fact he didn't change much. Granted he has a smaller fanbase, but still. And now Helena is revealed and everyone starts to bitch and moan lmao. Just wait for a proper breakdown and then you can nitpick at what you do not like.
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To be honest, we haven't been told ANYTHING about Brad Wong, other than he has a handstand stance with an airthrow, and he can CB in 3 hits, Helena and Lisa can't(at least that's what I'm getting at).
 
TRI Mike

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
I already tweeted a link to the thread to Team Ninja. At this point I feel that with Helena, it stopped being important that she was "officially" revealed today. It's already too obvious that she's lacking in way too many aspects. We need Team Ninja to listen to us.
 
Game Over

Game Over

Well-Known Member
With the changes to the system in DOA5, I kinda expected Helena to suffer in this iteration. Her mixup game was a definite asset in the DOA4 system. Here, I am prepared to accept maining a different character (assuming I can find the time to play at least semi-regularly).

In DOA4, I tried a number of characters ... settled on maining Helena.
In DOA5, I will try a number of characters ... and might settle on maining Jann Lee.


Of note, Lisa will probably always be a secondary for me, as her undeniable SWAG has earned her "IDGAF" certification in my book!
 
TRI Mike

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Hm... I wrote a little message on the official Facebook group and Twitter.

Greetings. Me and several other veteran Helena players are very worried about her performance and tools in DOA5. Just from the two videos posted today and Mr Shimbori's statements in an interview, it became too obvious that Helena is lacking in too many important aspects of gameplay in the game. We fans think that it's vital for her to be fixed before the game goes gold and into the stores in September 25th. As a member of the forums at www.freestepdodge.com, me and all Helena players are worried so we made a list of vital tools Helena should have in Dead or Alive 5 to be able to compete with the rest of the characters in equal ground in casual, hardcore and professional matches. The thread can be found in here: http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/helenas-needed-improvements.1052/#post-30358
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Please, listen to us, the players who see the game from a competitive and gameplay-focused point of view. Helena is not a good character right now and fixing her is extremely important for the game. Every character should be good and Helena is not.

Thanks in advance.
Miguel Nieto.
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TRI Mike

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Awesome, it's gonna be really helpful to have a breakdown from Bryan if we want actually good material for TN to listen to us.
 
WiZzYx

WiZzYx

Active Member
This is unfair. Anyone here created a thread and complained the same way, with respect to Brad Wong, and their practicaly null changes (judging by the videos only) in gameplay (beyond its new instance of doubtful practical utility)? It's because it's a filthy drunk? :)
I would have done, but I'm a nobody here :(
 
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