DOA5U Homework Time! Footsies and Spacing 101

[Azarino]

Dead or alive does encourage aggressive play though, the point of the game is to be as random and unpredictable as possible with the hold system being your only obstacle.

Just approach them, zoners/spacers are vulnerable too, chances are if you come within a certain distance they'll throw out an attack hoping to counter hit you, just flush them out and bait a reaction. When you're in their face you gotta stay in their face and not let them do anything otherwise they'll just back away again and restart the cycle. I'm personally a fan of zoning, I love the idea of you making it almost impossible for an opponent to approach you, Sonic Fox did that with Tanya at Evo two years ago and I was practically drooling in awe of how well he kept the opponent away from him. XD

At last someone I agree with. I have to agree that the counters do depend on the win immensely.

 

[Azarino]

True.... but I got the impression he would be better off in a game built around his play style rather than have to change his style to fit the game...


Whenever I struggle against something like that... I copy it.... see if I could get into the mind of my opponent and figure out why they would do that..... and hope that insight will help me develope a counter Strategy.

I've been wondering how to do that for a long long time

 

[DestructionBomb]

That'll probably end in a draw, but if we are dealing with a player who knows how to play the game? he'll hit you until you are at the situation and range to where you have to catch up and forcing you to be aggressive (which is what they want, you fell for the scheme and you deserved it, they now want you to be aggressive so you can make more mistakes in the long run. This is on you).

Counters are part of the game, but if they are putting you in a situation where you can't even get near them without even "needing" to hold who's fault is that? oh of course....you.

I mean really, come now, we can't be this gullible here.

 

[KasumiLover]

Also it doesn't hurt to know frame data, or at least most of it. I know most for the characters I use but I focus more range and safety in that regard, I'm pretty sure if you asked me what moves were safe/unsafe for Kasumi, Mai, and Naotora I could tell you since I do try to review frames everyday XD. My friend Brad is kind of like you, he doesn't really care about frame data but he's gotten better and has asked me in the past of what moves for a certain character are safe or not.

 

[Azarino]

Who do you play as? If it's just akira please don't give me advice.

 

[Azarino]

When would a move not be safe can you give me an example. Isn't a move unsafe all the time...

 

[DestructionBomb]

Wait wait....is that post incredible?

Hold on. "If it's just akira please don't give me advice."

Let me refresh the page. *Refreshes 4x*.....oh shit he's for real. - For the first time in the amount of years I've been in forums, that is literally first golden post of the day. Wow, incredible intelligence. This is why you'll get screwed playing the game lol.

 

[Azarino]

I did know that sir.

and it seems like I also knew who your main was.

 

[KasumiLover]

When would a move not be safe can you give me an example. Isn't a move unsafe all the time...

No, For example Kasumi's 8P is safe but her 8K is unsafe. 6PK is I think -12 on block but safe because of the pushback and 4H+K varies depending on distance. if done up close you're still vulnerable to a neutral throw but those can be broken so therefore it's still safe, but if done at max distance it's -4 if I recall so you safe. online will make you question this tho at times XD

The thing about unsafe moves is that you cb actually get away with them if your opponent doesn't punish or doesn't know how unsafe a move is and they "overpunish", like if you try to punish Kasumi 6P which is -9 I believe with a 12i throw you gonna eat a hi counter, plus your attack has follow ups and delay so you're invulnerable while delaying unless your opponent OHs for the most part.

 

[DestructionBomb]

God this thread. Hajin will eventually make the post as to why these things have to work. There is no escape to logic even in the real world unless things are magically given to you.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

This discussion is hilarious.

@Azarino just like you have a problem with players with spacing strategy, there are players that aren't fond of having an opponent in their face hitting lots of buttons (or as players with your mentality say, aggressive play style).

The reality is very simple, you want to play the game a certain way, and so do other players. The issue is also that you want everyone you play to play the way you want them to play. Without employing a strategy that can potentially force your opponent to play in the manner you are looking for. No matter how you feel about another player "turtling" you, it isn't going to make them play the way you want them to play. Downplaying a method of play you do not like isn't going to change how other players play and it is certainly not going to improve your level of play or play potential.

The playstyle or strategy you are whinning about is a simple one that is employed in every fighting game. No matter which fighting game you are going to play, you are going to face it at some point. You have to learn how to play against it or continue on as you have been (which isn't solving anything anyway).

Your defensive antics towards Destruction Bomb isn't helping anything. The man replied to your initial post to shed some light about the situation you seem to get caught into in-game but you feel the need to insult someone taking time to educate you on something you have issues with against opponents.

It is clear to me that you have a lot to learn when playing fighting games if such a simple tactic is so pesky.

Do you want to learn how to actually get better, or continue on whinning about how other players play the game?

Think very hard about my question before you reply with some silly antic. You have a real chance at improving right now.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Speak of the devil! great post @iHajinShinobi

 

[SilverForte]

No matter what fighting game you play, you will have to change the way you play depending on the MU and the other player unless you're playing a God tier char or something. It's nothing new but you gotta get that in your mind if you want to improve.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Just approach them, zoners/spacers are vulnerable too, chances are if you come within a certain distance they'll throw out an attack hoping to counter hit you, just flush them out and bait a reaction.

This isn't nearly as simple as you're making it out to be. There are other mini-variables players with a strong spacing strategy can employ to make your attempts at approaching difficult.

 

[Azarino]

You both seem to bold your cliché text. What you've both told me is "information" I already know about. If I knew I could control how others should play I wouldn't be complaining. Yes people play in their own way and I like playing different fighting styles however, if someone is t-bagging me or is deliberately waiting for me to hit them first it's not fun.

If both opponents relied on spacing the match would be a very boring one. There must be a balance between being offensive and defensive. And many seem to unable to do that.

 

[SilverForte]

I think the main issue is that most players experiences with this game are online people mashing out strings out of disadvantage, not being able to hold stuff on reaction, etc. Most people don't even try to play a good neutral game in the first place.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

If both opponents relied on spacing the match would be a very boring one. There must be a balance between being offensive and defensive. And many seem to unable to do that.

You pretty much just called yourself out on that. And honestly it is a problem you have, all of your posts in this thread implied so.

So how about this, stop complaining and tell me what you are in need of learning so you can apply it in your play.

 

[KasumiLover]

This isn't nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.

Well it depends on who is doing the zoning and who that player is using. Like if someone tried to do that to you and Ayane, chances are they'll likely get blown up unless they know exactly what you gonna do since she can either attack or spin away(I've seen you use 3H+K alot of times in tournaments for example) or do something else unless a character has a move/tool they can use to shut that down without actually approaching. It depends tho especially regarding the character, but then again I'm more Naotora/Mai zoner than an Ayane one xD I have no idea but the basics of how she works.

 

[Azarino]

I think the main issue is that most players experiences with this game are online people mashing out strings out of disadvantage, not being able to hold stuff on reaction, etc. Most people don't even try to play a good neutral game in the first place.

This ^

 

[SilverForte]

This man must be thankful Genra isnt in the game. I think he'd have an aneurism.