How to change Side Step

Diegomain

New Member
According to this article https://twinfinite.net/2019/04/dead-or-alive-6-future/ there will be some upcoming changes to the game.

"For future updates, the team is planning to keep listening to player feedback while correcting inconvenient elements and tweaking the performance of characters. The most urgent thing to do is to address feedback about side attacks being too convenient. While there are pros and cons, there have been many comments about them, so the team is examining their balance. "

So now that we know Side Stepping will change, how would you like it to change?

Personally I would like it to have a slower start up and a slightly longer recovery. My personal reason for this is because as a Diego player I am forced to use nothing but 1P(Tracking low), and K(Tracking high) against someone who Side Steps. If I use any other move I will lose. It gets boring to use the same exact move over and over again when a match without a lot of side stepping is so much more fun. Games without it have a much more layered neutral game where I use all my attacks not just tracking low/mid/high.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Glad they're looking into sidestep attacks, it's annoying when players use them as a gimmick rather than a smart or good read tool and you can get blown up by them when you least expect it. Here's some ways I think they could be toned down:

-Make them less quick on start up or make the actual attack slower. This will benefit some characters alot since even if you have a tracking attack in a string the sidestep attack may be quick enough to beat it out, this would also eleminate some of the extra invincibility it has since you're basically screwed if the opponent simply steps most of your single attacks since you often can't block quick enough once you are stepped even when you do simple single strikes.

-Reduce the knockback. I feel for a simple often on normal hit move, the knock back is a bit much imo, they could make it to where the on hit animation leaves the opponent standing on normal hit but they'd be at a disadvantage and the person who performed it would still have a advantage. The knock back it has now could be used instead if you get a counter hit, or perform the move during a stun or after a bound.

-Make the hit level a high rather than a mid so that they can be better universally held(some characters have mid kicks and mid punches and this can be a chore to memorize who has what unless you have a mid parry) and so that they can be vulnerable to missing the opponent if they perform a move with crouching properties(if the move doesn't track it wouldn't hit but it would still leave the person who stepped at a disadvantage)

-Reduce range. They could shave off it's reach or forward attack movement so that it's a close quarter counter measure and would only work if the opponent is literally in your face or just at close range so that if you're moving in you won't have to worry about being step attacked back into a zoned out situation.

-Make side step attacks more dangerous against tracking moves. They did this with Phase where the opponent is put into a fatal stun if 4P hits them on sidestep. I think to possibly deter players from using it so much, they could add this same property to all tracking strikes besides tracking lows. I feel like if this would be a consequence, it would make random steps alot less likely to happen.

Sure, everyone has their 18i S attack as a go to sidestep punish but you have to be on point with it since its unsafe and somewhat slow. You wouldn't really have a truly reliable way to use it much besides after a break hold or in a situation where it's almost inevitable that the opponent will try to mask their disadvantage/advantage with a side step

Im Diego main here, use 2 h+k buddy. Its not that big of a deal lol
It's not that simple. For the most part, with characters who have awful tracking, they're usually forced to use slow or unsafe moves to prevent being stepped and that could be predictable. Even characters like Kasumi have to take risks since even tho she doesn't struggle with tracking, none of tracking options in the game are safe, only 6PK(pushback) and 6KK(safe ender) and 66PP(GB into hoshinpo) would be technically be.
 

Kuga

Active Member
Hmmm:
-get rid of SSA completely,
-make linear strings not track after succesful SS to allow normal hits to punish.

Problem solved.
 

SaihateDYNAMO

Well-Known Member
Why can’t the SSAs be like DOA5’s where each character has a unique :P: and :K: one that doesnt have knockback? Is it because they wanted to make them universal?
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Why can’t the SSAs be like DOA5’s where each character has a unique :P: and :K: one that doesnt have knockback? Is it because they wanted to make them universal?
I think they should add a punch and kick option tbh since the sidestep attack imo is pretty shallow atm, all you can do is step to the side and then attack which is pretty basic imo and it seems unfinished
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
Don't change it.

Why can’t the SSAs be like DOA5’s where each character has a unique :P: and :K: one that doesnt have knockback? Is it because they wanted to make them universal?

It's because they didn't want you to go into the stun meta game from making such a read, and wanted to use it as a reset to neutral tool.

the sidestep attack imo is pretty shallow atm, all you can do is step to the side and then attack which is pretty basic imo and it seems unfinished

Empty step, then fuzzy or throw are two other options you could do.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
How to make stepping great again:
1. delete side step
2. buff free step



Realistically speaking though, I can think of some minor tweaks:
- 2SS winning trades VS tracking strikes just because they deal less damage might be unfair
- Rig 2SS in particular should probably be normalized a little. He does a Kick but it used to register as a Punch lol, and the pushback on block is still too much, so it must be unintended
- let's be honest 2S is hot garbage compared to 2SS. Still gets CH by any non-tracking move when the side-step status stops, just like DOA5. I say buff that shit by either removing the ALWAYS-COUNTER-HIT flag from the 2S animation, or go in hardcore and give 2S side-step status to all its frames

If we want to nerf that shit at all costs I have the best idea ever check this out.
Keep it exactly the same but remove any wallsplat ability. This way the reward gets reduced but the "get off me back to neutral" function remains intact. This might or might not look visually pleasing when done next to a wall though.
Most of the pain caused by side steps comes from the environment, like, try to picture this common, likely frustrating scenario:
>panic mashing 2SSSSSSS
>lol the opponent's attack clipped through my body completely but I still dodged it, my character did a 180 degrees spin to catch him in the process because lol infinite DOA homing and I barely landed a stray hit
>lol something exploded from it here comes the combo video
>lol next round



P.S.: going back to side step strikes that stun is the worst fucking idea please don't suggest it, less guessing game and more neutral game = good game
 
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Raansu

Well-Known Member
I'd rather they fix the core problem atm which is a universally -15 move isn't really -15 thanks to pushback on block. Fix that so EVERYONE can punish it with a 12i throw on block then they can worry about tweaking other aspects if needed. Lets avoid making sweeping changes to things before fixing core issues first.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
@DestructionBomb 2S comparison (no followup, tested with busa)
Code:
DOA5LR
1~20 side step status
25 total frames

DOA6
1~15 side step status
25 total frames
reminder that those non-side step frames can still get CH by everything... Throws, OH's, and even linear Strikes kek



oh and btw I found something else to fix
It appears that Brad Wong (and Honoka because she stole his move) has the only 2SS in the game with side step status on its first active frame. Normally, the side step status stops at the last startup frame for rest of the characters.
Which coincidentally means that you can win frame perfect trades with 2SS using non-tracking moves, see these examples:
https://gfycat.com/UncommonFalseFirecrest
https://gfycat.com/ClosedBountifulGalapagosdove
(the setups don't work on Brad and Honoka)
 
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Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It's because they didn't want you to go into the stun meta game from making such a read, and wanted to use it as a reset to neutral tool.
Only it doesn't do that at all.

Option 1) You get bopped into a wall/TOD danger zone. Neither of these qualify as a "reset to neutral."
Option 2) You sail into the middle of the arena and don't tech up, creating an oki scenario. Once again, basically the opposite of "neutral."
Option 3) You sail into the middle of the arena and tech up (backwards or sideways). The SS attacker rushes into your face and is still at huge frame advantage, creating a pressure scenario for them that is in no way neutral.

All of these are further from neutral than the typical scenarios that were occurring prior to the SS attack being used.

How to make stepping great again:
1. delete side step
2. buff free step
Wait a minute, that's starting to sound kinda like SC. You did listen! <3
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
Option 1) You get bopped into a wall/TOD danger zone. Neither of these qualify as a "reset to neutral."

Reason I've suggested the only change to it I'd make is make the hit cause knockdown without knock back.

Option 2) You sail into the middle of the arena and don't tech up, creating an oki scenario. Once again, basically the opposite of "neutral."

Considering the biggest complaint is the advantage players have when on the ground, the "oki scenario" in 6 right now i to let someone get up off the ground: I.E., returning to neutral.

Option 3) You sail into the middle of the arena and tech up (backwards or sideways). The SS attacker rushes into your face and is still at huge frame advantage, creating a pressure scenario for them that is in no way neutral.

I don't see this option happen nearly enough considering Option 1 and 2's frequency, and are reasons as to why not to do Option 3 and to instead do Option 2.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Considering the biggest complaint is the advantage players have when on the ground, the "oki scenario" in 6 right now i to let someone get up off the ground: I.E., returning to neutral.
The biggest complaint is the sidestep itself, at least according to the interview that sparked this thread.

Even assuming that your assessment here is accurate across all MUs and the oki is so strong that the standing player refuses to even engage it, that doesn't qualify as neutral. That would be "let's put the game on pause for a bit to watch a downed opponent revel in a static, advantageous state until eventually things return to neutral." Why you'd want to further encourage that situation to be more prevalent than it already is baffles me.
 
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