IGN's 12 Days of DOA5

[grap3fruitman]

Sequel logic! Welcome to the game development industry, where money needs to be made, and casual audiences take precedence over the hardcore!

No shit? Sorry, it's my first day.

At face value, nothing much has changed since DOA2. And face value > depth.

So if the casual players can't tell what's changed, how would implementing the changes the hardcore have been asking for hurt their perception of the game?

If the game was fixed and the hardcore were playing it and had a scene then more casuals would likely pick it up from the added exposure. Instead, it'll stay the "casual titty fighter with no depth." That's a great plan!

I remember how badly it hurt Mortal Kombat series by making the last game a serious one. Everyone involved went under! Oh wait... It was the best selling MK game in years? What?!

So they'll do some changes. Enough to keep the hardcore happy

They're doing a terrible job.

The industry doesn't involve around the hardcore unless money can be made off them.

Why do you think making DOA a solid fighter would exclude the entirety of the casual audience? What the hell does anything you just said have to do with what I said?

 

[Ooobe]

Sequel logic!<snip>

I'm not disputing anything you said, but that's a very short term vision for the company to take.
Without continued (unacceptably expensive) marketing, the only way for the game to maintain a presence after launch is through the competetive fighting game scene. You don't hit several million pre-orders for a sequel if there's no interest in the current version. And release hype dies down after a few weeks. If the game isn't competetive it has a several months at best. That's been seen before despite tons of promotion going into DOA4.
In this case it's key the FGC keep this title alive and relevant well beyond the launch window.
Casuals will still buy the title (discounted of course) well after it's release if they can watch good competetive play. That's what stirs interest and keeps buzz going well after the marketing budget has run out. Then they're already looking to get the next title. <or other games by the same developer>

Completely unrelated analogy: How much golf equipment do you think would be sold, if people couldn't watch pros doing things they can only dream of? The best players are the best salespeople. If they don't want to play the game, it will never have more than a cult following.

Sorry, I was slow posting this.

And oh yeah, what Grap3 said about MK.

 

[Black Dragon]

So if the casual players can't tell what's changed, how would implementing the changes the hardcore have been asking for hurt their perception of the game? If the game was fixed and the hardcore were playing it and had a scene then more casuals would likely pick it up from the added exposure.

I doubt the TK higher-ups think the same way.

We're right now in a FG bubble started by SFIV. They wanna take advantage of this opportunity. They'll probably tell TN to keep the hardcore-hated attributes so that casuals instantly know what it is (humanity's greatest insticnt isn't survival, it's familarity).

They'll know that games rarely pick up sales after the first month of release or so. So they'll use marketing schemes, usually those that have been tested to work - trailers, developer interviews, maybe extend to billboards and TV marketing. Oh, and good reviews would help, too.

But hardcore-assisted marketing? They'd never look at that. Not unless there's something in it for them. Especially for a game series that's had poor hardcore support for over a decade (yes, due to their poor decisions, but they won't admit that).

Why do you think making DOA a solid fighter would exclude the entirety of the casual audience? What the hell does anything you just said have to do with what I said?

I didn't even imply, let alone suggest that. Something on your mind?

My entire point here is to be realistic. Team Ninja do not have just us to answer to.

 

[Rikuto]

bayman low countered, hitomi threw high and missed, then had time to low throw successfully before he recovered. yall are damn blind

 

[Ooobe]

<snip>
But hardcore-assisted marketing? They'd never look at that. Not unless there's something in it for them.
<snip>

That's just it, there is something in it for them.

So if the casual players can't tell what's changed, how would implementing the changes the hardcore have been asking for hurt their perception of the game?

Hate to disagree, but if casual players are used to getting the advantage after messing up, they'll definetly notice if they can't do that anymore. Get juggled, put down the controller in disgust. I've seen that shit more than once. It's like calling everything broken. And there is no pleasing everybody.

bayman low countered, hitomi threw high and missed, then had time to low throw successfully before he recovered. yall are damn blind

Thanks for that. I need to watch more closely. Off to check it out again.

 

[x Sypher x]

Not sure where to ask this but here I go:

Can someone help me with Eliot's juggle? If you notice right after 6K he executes twice in quick succession. This was also possible in DOA4 and DOAD during mid juggle. However I could never get it down right. Every time I try I end up failing, in which I have to wait for the crouch before I can do it again. Is there a way to buffer it in order to execute it properly? It's a very useful tool for relaunching and I want to get it right. It looks tricky.

 

[Black Dragon]

That's just it, there is something in it for them.

Anything short to medium term? Because this generation, time is very much money.

 

[Ooobe]

bayman low countered, hitomi threw high and missed, then had time to low throw successfully before he recovered. yall are damn blind

Wouldn't that be a missed hit confirm for Hitomi? I didn't think you could throw a stunned opponent, so why go for a high throw? It also looked to come out at just about the same time as the low counter.
Also, at 1:04 <embedded time in the video> in Hitomi vs. Bayman #1, Hitomi hits with a low kick from about a mile away. That is some crazy range!

Anything short to medium term? Because this generation, time is very much money.

Short term is going to be more closely related to marketing and they're doing that. Medium term is hype and word of mouth from the community for early tournaments, so yes.

 

[Deleted member 473]

Imma just be honest, everyone doesnt go to tournaments. And DOA hasnt really had a lot of players as "aforementioned games". So what makes yall the "hardcore FGC" think that people WILL EVEN BE SUCCESSFUL by mouth? I hyped up my friend because he "remembered/familiar" about DOA. Not because it was competitive....that was an afterthought.

For example music. People don't just cater to B.o.B just because he raps the same shit every other rapper do, its because he has a mixup of different genres, not just one. People get tired of the same ol' shit. Thats why TN has decided to focus on BOTH sides simultaneously. Case in point: Nobody would have really cared if DOA got into the FGC, because it really wasnt broad enough, and people only knew it based off familiarity..... Boobs.

 

[Jefffcore]

A good game > Us playing > Tournaments > Hype/Interest in the game (and more sales) > Bigger turn-outs > Longevity

 

[Black Dragon]

That's our reasoning.

It's not TKs. Yet.

If they believe that via sponsoring tourneys they'll make the money back via more game sales and merchandising, then maybe.

But they'll also take into account the fact that the scene is small, and numbers ahve been shit since... well... forever (sans CGS).

Risk/reward.

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

Commentator Bio: Kat “Mystik” Gunn


http://www.ign.com/ipl/all/news/commentator-bio-kat-mystik-gunn/

Good read, I hope to see more of her in the future

 

[DontForkWitMe]

damn after seeing those latest videos I wouldn't be surprised if the character worse than lisa that dogg claimed in the games latest build is kasumi. she does piddly ass damage from what i see, those little love taps shes pulling off ain't doing shit and that one throw she does that kicks them in the air takes off a milimeter of life bar. she needs more than just speed because characters like jann lee, sarah, rig etc look just as fast and do more damage while having far better pressure tools. add in the new sidestepping and makes it even easier to avoid her bs

 

[Black Dragon]

Commentator Bio: Kat “Mystik” Gunn


http://www.ign.com/ipl/all/news/commentator-bio-kat-mystik-gunn/

Good read, I hope to see more of her in the future

"She had an early career with the all female PMS Clan, but it didn’t last long due to creative differences."

LOL.

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

damn after seeing those latest videos I wouldn't be surprised if the character worse than lisa that dogg claimed in the games latest build is kasumi. she does piddly ass damage from what i see, those little love taps shes pulling off ain't doing shit and that one throw she does that kicks them in the air takes off a milimeter of life bar. she needs more than just speed because characters like jann lee, sarah, rig etc look just as fast and do more damage while having far better pressure tools. add in the new sidestepping and makes it even easier to avoid her bs

Problem is that people will still play Kasumi no matter what :/

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Kasumi's damage is not that great but shes really good at keeping combos going to me. And she has a good variety of attacks so its kinda hard to guess what she's gonna do.

 

[Ooobe]

I'm probably going to let this go now, but I don't think I follow your post.

Other than ALL CAPS it seems like you're agreeing with me, though it "sounds" like you're trying not to.

Imma just be honest, everyone doesnt go to tournaments. And DOA hasnt really had a lot of players as "aforementioned games".

Sad, but true. Maybe because it wasn't competetive I haven't been to tourneys either, but I enjoy watching and learning from competetive play.

So what makes yall the "hardcore FGC" think that people WILL EVEN BE SUCCESSFUL by mouth? I hyped up my friend because he "remembered/familiar" about DOA. Not because it was competitive....that was an afterthought.

Thanks for promoting a game I love. You were able to hype your friend <for whatever reason>, so it works. If everyone tells two friends...etc.

For example music. People don't just cater to B.o.B just because he raps the same shit every other rapper do, its because he has a mixup of different genres, not just one. People get tired of the same ol' shit. Thats why TN has decided to focus on BOTH sides simultaneously.

Again, you are right. DOA isn't every other fighting game and that's one reason so many people feel strongly about it. I don't think anyone want's it to be anything other than DOA. -Just the best DOA possible.

Case in point: Nobody would have really cared if DOA got into the FGC, because it really wasnt broad enough, and people only knew it based off familiarity..... Boobs.

Sadly I have to disagree with the last part. Obviously many people care about DOA as a competetive game, or they wouldn't be watching streams, asking for videos of high level play and coming to a site dedicated to DOA as a fighting game. Nonetheless - yay Boobs!

 

[Allan Paris]

Kasumi

Tell me about it. I've Been seeing that for the past several months. I'm going to miss her if she stays the way she is.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I didn't even imply, let alone suggest that. Something on your mind?

You didn't? Someone else is posting with your alias then:

Sequel logic! Welcome to the game development industry, where money needs to be made, and casual audiences take precedence over the hardcore!

At face value, nothing much has changed since DOA2. And face value > depth. So there's no way TN's gonna keep familarity fro DOA2-4 then do a complete switcharoo for DOA5. Fuck the casuals, the publisher won't like it - there's too much risk involved, especially this generation.

So they'll do some changes. Enough to keep the hardcore happy, and to keep a sense of familiarity for the casuals.

It's all compromise.

As much as Shibamori would love to make major changes to the system (if he does), even he knows not to rush. The industry doesn't involve around the hardcore unless money can be made off them.

BTW, the previous demands for changes were to a previous leader too stubborn to find and fix the faults. And while Shibamori takes feedback from you guys, he also has to consider his team, his higher-ups, the casuals, etc.

Lack of satisfaction is good and all, but have some perspective.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

Not sure where to ask this but here I go:

Can someone help me with Eliot's juggle? If you notice right after 6K he executes twice in quick succession. This was also possible in DOA4 and DOAD during mid juggle. However I could never get it down right. Every time I try I end up failing, in which I have to wait for the crouch before I can do it again. Is there a way to buffer it in order to execute it properly? It's a very useful tool for relaunching and I want to get it right. It looks tricky.

been awhile since i played him but i remember there was an alternate way of doing it in doa4 where he isn't required to be in full crouch. instead of trying to buffer . use the move comes out much faster bypassing the "while crouching" state which is how people are able to pull it off in juggles. from the looks of it this move will be essential for any eliot player in 5 compared to 4 since the re-floating properties of it are much better as is his juggle damage output