Jin Masters' Hayate Holiday Tech

#1
Just a brief intro: (Just in time for the holidays)
I've been involved and enjoying the Dead or Alive series since Dead or Alive Ultimate on the original Xbox running the Newbornathlete gamertag. As an instant fan of ninja characters I picked up Hayabusa and learned from the teachings of DoaMaster whom is now known as Master. In Doa4 I noticed another ninja male (Hayate) I instantly grew fond of the character from the grace of his movement and power of his strikes. So you can say I've been playing Hayate for about 9 years and over the course of time while learning the game I learned the characters strengths. So I enjoy learning tech, I enjoy learning stage tech, and I enjoy DOA. I guess that's why out of all video games I've come across I always find myself popping the latest version of DOA in the system. So enough of the rambling let's get to the tech....

Pseudo Force Tech: *w!= full wall slam
  • 33kk---------------w! 4p2k (+16)
  • 9kkk--------------w! 4p2k
  • 66pp or 66p+k-w! 3p2k
  • 6pk---------------w! pp2k
  • 1k (knockdown)---4p2k
Unholdable: (if the opponent quick recovers)
  • pkk--------------------p+k, 4p
  • f+kk-------------------8k, 236k
  • 9kkk------------------214k
  • pp6pk or 6pk-------w! whiff 12f throw into p+k or 4p
Throws:
  • 33T 10f (2p is guaranteed [not the down attack]) If tech: Wind Dash K, 214p (both unholdable) No Tech: 3f+k (force techs)
This throw is another underrated throw. Who would've knew, that guaranteed ground game. To keep the opponent guessing allowing you to rack up a lot of damage fast
  • 236T 7f (This throw is underrated by far) *also a punish throw
For the most part I feel like this should be his punish throw because it puts the opponent in tilt reason being. After the throw you execute: 6p(slight delay)p, p (places them at max threshold) 7p (critical burst)
If they start holding the second mid punch you can mix in 3k, 2k, 236T(reset), or 33T (for the ground mixup) etc.
  • 41236T 12f (For Ceiling situations)
If there is a breakable obstacle like a box or bench nearby always finish the Nakiryu into one of two combos:

  1. 214p, 33k, 66kkk (can be slow escaped on fastest)
  2. Wind dash p+k 66kkk
STAGE COMBOS

The Wind Ninja Hotzone Combo: (ONLY WORKS IF THEY HOLD AFTER KNOCKED OVER SANDBAG)


To execute this stylish combo using the helicopter to aid you in battle the sandbag danger zone needs to be activated then you performs as followed:
  • Land a power blow and aim at the sandbags *note: the powerblow gives the helicopter a hitbox
Now that you knocked your opponent over the danger zone if they perform a standing hold you must slightly delay 41236T which knocks them into the helicopter sending them behind you next to the sandbags. They now bounce on the floor then you perform: 236k or 236p (activates sandbag dangerzone again) 4p6p+kk, 7k

Scramble Metal Can Dangerzone Combo:
  • Any wall hit into: pp6pk, 8k, 66kkk
Haunted Lorelei (Top):
  • Any hit into a pumpkin lantern (activates dangerzone), 7k into same lantern by the time they fall the pumpkin hits them granting a free hit *ENTER POWER BLOW HERE
Sky City Tokyo: (Have Buddha aid you in the fight)
  • In the first round on the side of the stage that Buddha spawns where his hand slams the stage
Preferably after landing pp6pk or 6pk perform one full backdash to be granted a free hit *ENTER POWER BLOW HERE
 
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Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
#3
Just a brief intro: (Just in time for the holidays)

Throws:
  • 33T 10f (2p is guaranteed [not the down attack]) If tech: Wind Dash K, 214p (both unholdable) No Tech: 3f+k (force techs)
This throw is another underrated throw. Who would've knew, that guaranteed ground game. To keep the opponent guessing allowing you to rack up a lot of damage fast
Haha I have known for over a year.

I argued with a player or two in this sub-forum about this throw and doing 2K after it. 2K can be teched but I mentioned 2P as well and I was told it was nothing special about it /worth doing all the much. I do not know which thread it is in or it may have been a private conversation. Either way it is good to see that someone else is on the same page finally. Good stuff, man.
 
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KING JAIMY

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Rotterdam, The Netherlands
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#5
I don't really understand tech..I only kind of know about force techs, so could either of you explain what tech is and the types of tech? @Jin Masters @Allan Paris
I am aware this post isn't directed towards me, but since I am fairly sure I can explain what tech is, I thought I'd answer.

Tech is a general term for fighting games and is an abbreviation of 'techniques'. It basically refers to all the tricks, combos or cool stuff people come up with.

On the other hand, the term 'tech' can also be more specific and be an abbreviation of 'tech roll' (or ukemi, as is known in other fighting games). If you say someone instantly gets up when they hit the ground, you say they 'tech up', 'tech roll' or simply 'tech'. Hence the term 'force tech' also exists: You use a certain move to force the opponent to get up from the ground, that is you force them to tech.

There are four types of tech rolls:

1) Neutral tech, in which you tech in the location you fell down
2) Side tech to the left (away from the camera if on the Player 1 side of the fight)
3) Side tech to the right (towards the camera if on the Player 1 side of the fight)
4) Back tech, in which you tech but stand up in a location behind where you originally landed.

Hope this helps!
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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PSN ID
TakedaZX
#8
@Allan Paris I think I was one of them lol. But that was on Facebook I think. Regardless yea it's useful. I like 2K because it's easier to follow up on since it doesn't knock them as far away but more often than not they tech after 2p so it's ok.
 

iHajinShinobi

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Standard Donor
California
Main Character
Ayane
#9
I'm not understanding how P+K or 4P is an unholdable after PP6PK/6PK full wall slam.

To clarify, let me explain;

When you whiff the i12 41236T then perform 4P, I am getting held (or it whiffs) by mid weight males and females. When I double check the data (advantage), I am lelft at +20. I would need to be at +19 for P+K or 4P be considered an unholdable, or at least test to see if it in this situation with the wall, on a full wall.

On a super light weight character like Ayane, for example, I am left at +21, both P+K and 4P completely whiff. For something to work as an unholdable, you need to be left at an advantage that is usually a 1-frame difference because you cannot hold immediately between that 1-frame window.

Ayane: When I knock you down with a 6K2K and you tech up, I'm left at +17, so 66K will be my unholdable here.

Same thing with 9KKK > 214K.

My timing is immediate in these situations (as unholdables usually always are unless otherwise specified). Are these timing specific? If so, that needs to be clarified because that's actually very important information left out.
 
Last edited:

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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PSN ID
TakedaZX
#10
I'm not understanding how P+K or 4P is an unholdable after PP6PK/6PK full wall slam.

To clarify, let me explain;

When you whiff the i12 41236T then perform 4P, I am getting held (or it whiffs) by mid weight males and females. When I double check the data (advantage), I am lelft at +20. I would need to be at +19 for P+K or 4P be considered an unholdable, or at least test to see if it in this situation with the wall, on a full wall.

On a super light weight character like Ayane, for example, I am left at +21, both P+K and 4P completely whiff. For something to work as an unholdable, you need to be left at an advantage that is usually a 1-frame difference because you cannot hold immediately between that 1-frame window.

Ayane: When I knock you down with a 6K2K and you tech up, I'm left at +17, so 66K will be my unholdable here.

Same thing with 9KKK > 214K.

My timing is immediate in these situations (as unholdables usually always are unless otherwise specified). Are these timing specific? If so, that needs to be clarified because that's actually very important information left out.
I thought so. I just read this today and I didn't believe it but I never got to test them.

I know there [IS] an unholdable 4P set up somewhere but it's one that asks for you to sacrifice a shit load of damage plus I didn't write it down because I expected I'd use it enough to not have to worry about it.

Wrong. I quit the game right after and by the time I came back I'd forgetten, plus I was playing Ein.

If anyone wants real set ups I'll make some but given Hayate's moveset I doubt they'd be extremely game changing overall unless they include 4P or an unholdable PP2K.
 

iHajinShinobi

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California
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Ayane
#12
Not sure if anyone actually knows or not, but Hayate's 4K6K is a natural combo/launch in threshold if the opponent holds and it whiffs.

Stun the opponent, they guess with a hold, 4K6K launches with no interruption. You cannot hold the follow up to 4K6K this way, or hold out of it, at all.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
#13
I know that it's a natural combo but, I rarely if at all used it. The rare moments are for style, no real in-game application.

Not sure if anyone actually knows or not, but Hayate's 4K6K is a natural combo/launch in threshold if the opponent holds and it whiffs.
Does this include low holds as well? If it does not include low holds, especially a just frame low hold. Can he be throw punished at the worst for whiffing the string or first kick, or at the least be at a significant disadvantage from the situation?

I am legit asking these questions, as I do not have the game to test it, and I have not played it in an awfully long time. I just know I stay away from his high launchers besides 6K.
 

iHajinShinobi

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California
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Ayane
#14
This does not include the low hold, and yes he can be throw punished for whiffing 4K6K after low holding out of stun. You don't go for 4K6K if you see someone low holding, that much is obvious.

4K6K also isn't a natural combo unless it hits as described above.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
#15
4K6K also isn't a natural combo unless it hits as described above.
Again, this I already knew.

This does not include the low hold, and yes he can be throw punished for whiffing 4K6K after low holding out of stun. You don't go for 4K6K if you see someone low holding, that much is obvious.
So this would only work after a deep stun, like, 9P or 3P or extending the stun with a jab. 6P or 66P is not deep enough for it to work or does it? I have his frame data and I can tell by the numbers in where it should be effective, not as good as actually playing unfortunately.

For me, I stay away from it because of the low hold. Even with it acting as a natural combo after a whiffed hold. You have bank on a player mis-holding correctly lol. From my personal experience in using it, I have been taxed for it too much. which is why I just flat-out high launch with 6K and get it over with. I'm not saying that 4K6K is bad to use.

I appreciate the response and clearing that up for me. I thought something was patched, allowing him to seamlessly go into that.
 

iHajinShinobi

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Ayane
#16
If someone is low holding out of stun, then you work with mids/mid launchers/low throw until they are trained to stop doing it. If they don't learn, well its free damage.

So this would only work after a deep stun, like, 9P or 3P or extending the stun with a jab. 6P or 66P is not deep enough for it to work or does it? I have his frame data and I can tell by the numbers in where it should be effective, not as good as actually playing unfortunately.
Actually yes it is, a launch string that's a natural in threshold is very strong. And it works just fine.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
#17
If someone is low holding out of stun, then you work with mids/mid launchers/low throw until they are trained to stop doing it. If they don't learn, well its free damage.
right, i've been playing doa for minute. i just hasd a misunderstanding as to what was posted. everything still functions how i left off. i thought it was patch that allowed something new.


Actually yes it is, a launch string that's a natural in threshold is very strong. And it works just fine.
i didn't say it it was not good. what you underlined was me saying that i could not test what i was asking you, and if it was possible to pull off from those stuns, because i can only see what's on paper? I know now, though, that it is not.
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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PSN ID
TakedaZX
#18
Well the other question is if 6K is throw punishable after an instant low hold. If not, then it's definitely the safer threshold option. Also, 4k6k nets a bigger reward as far as damage potential goes until max threshold... Plus to reach that next threshold takes one less guess.

Example: CH 6p, 3k is a bread and butter start up with most players. At this point in the threshold, you could 6k into 66kkk as the juggle... This being threshold lvl 1 I believe.

Now the thing is, this would be great but 6k saw nerfs in Ultimate. The damage was reduced to 20 on NH making it match 4k6k per hit (both do 20). That being said, using 4k6k instead allows him to get an extra hit in which pushes him to the next threshold (lvl 2... Or 3 both which = 66kkk on lights. On mids on threshold lvl 3 gives him 66kkk.

In the case of lightweights he can opt for a more damaging combo through 4p6p+k~k, BT 7k which for some odd reason doesn't work off of stun launch 6k... But it is what it is.

I, as well as most of the other main Hayate mains/subs here (Tenryuga, Accurate, Allan, Rojikku, etc.) have known about it but I'm glad it was mentioned for the newer players that might be observing.

Moral: Risk vs Reward is all in order on these launchers. I flesh them out all the time because you get a lot of mid holders these days so putting these on the screen isn't as bad... damage is damage and no matter what you won't go unrewarded for using 4k6k and landing it, early threshold or not.
 

TakedaZX

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TakedaZX
#20
I talked about it in this the Hayate Breakdown thread back in Vanilla, when the 4k6k change was originally implemented.
4k6k - 16i 2 in 1 high launcher. It looks cool though the height isn't astounding. It has place in post Raijin/Nakiryu launch juggles but it's still a 2 in 1 launcher so it's definitely useful.
As an irrelevant player (speaking of myself, not you), I wouldn't expect you to have read that book I wrote in the "I used to be the wind" topic. Besides that, me and you were fighting at the time.

But if it makes you feel better, while I did almost discover it myself by confusion one day in the lab, Silent Legend was the one to solidify the concept in my head.

So I didn't discover it. They new.
 
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