Kokoro General Thoughts/ Ideas

[D_EEM_0]

TN should give Kokoro's 7K tracking properties. I don't understand how it isn't. She has so little tracking moves and the new side stepping feature really displays it.

I honestly think they should make her heichu grab track. This would help a ton, with people who side step mid combo.

 

[Strangerinmytub]

I honestly think they should make her heichu grab track. This would help a ton, with people who side step mid combo.

That sounds like it might be a little too strong, I think it would be more fair if they made one of the strings that goes into heichu track, since right now none of them do (PP, P2K, 9PP, 2KHPK, 8PHPK, etc.)

 

[XxNoriakixX]

But isn't it tracking? The move info says so iirc

 

[Strangerinmytub]

A lot of people are calling Kokoro a Top 5, S tier character. Let's examine this assignment.

Starting at the bottom, she isn't garbage like Marie Rose and Honoka, and nobody plays Phase4 so I don't really know where to put her. This puts Kokoro in at least C tier range.

Moving on to the shittier matchups, Brad Wong and Helena are nightmare matchups for Kokoro since they can dodge all her tracking moves with their stances. She also has a rough time against characters who outrange/out-track her (Kasumi, Ayane, Lisa, arguably Mila). Nobody plays Christie right now, but if the matchup is similar to what is was in 5, then that's an awful time for Kokoro as well.

Next we have the commonly viewed as S tier characters such as Hayabusa, Bass (?), Tina, and Nico. Most people generally accept these characters as being busted, and would most likely rate them higher than Kokoro.

The rest of the matchups are all skill matchups in my opinion, with neither Kokoro or her opponent having an objective advantage. People complain about Kokoro a lot but I haven't heard about any specific character matchup with Kokoro that is specifically awful for her opponent, who exactly does she hard counter that isn't a low tier character? I'm genuinely unsure of a single matchup where the other player goes "Oh, I'm playing *x* character and he's playing Kokoro, I guess I just lose."

So going back to the Top 5 assessment: We have two characters that hard counter Kokoro, 4-5 that have an advantage in the matchup, and 3-4 characters that own the top tier rankings. This at best makes Kokoro a Top 10 character, which is also debatable since she doesn't really hard counter anyone (except Marie and Honoka, who are countered by playing actual human beings). Personally, I can probably get behind a Top 10 ranking due to her well-rounded speed, strikes, throws, and holds, as well as her relatively low difficulty. However, Top 5 is a stretch for me since she has garbage tracking, some specifically shitty matchups, and she isn't as mind boggling broken as some of the other characters.

 

[NightAntilli]

Certain known tournament players rank her top 5, over Busa, Hayate and Rig. I do not understand why because you can beat Kokoro just by using sidestep attacks. And if you compare her with almost unsteppable characters like the ninja... just no. AND trashing Leifang who has some of the better anti ss tools and who is still top 10 imo.

Actually... Leifang suffers from the same problems that Kokoro has, and arguably, a few more.
Here's one example where Leifang has it worse.
Kokoro at least has a mid stand-alone move that tracks. You can throw it out immediately. Leifang does not have that luxury. All her tracking moves are either high (8P, 8K, 4K), or, they are the second or third attack in the string (4PP, PP6P, K2K). So with Leifang, at any point when attacking, you'd have to choose between trying to punish a sidestep and risk getting crushed, or do a linear mid attack expecting a crushing move and risk getting sidestepped. You can do an offensive hold as an alternative, but that doesn't help against low attacks, and with the amount of damage grabs do in this game, it's a high risk. The likes of Bayman and Christie are a nightmare to fight against because of this. I'm quite sure the same is true for Kokoro.

The issue with a lack of a low tracking move, Leifang has that also, albeit it's a bit different. Her stand-alone low kick is one of her worst moves, because it generally puts you in the exact position described above where you have to guess between the opponent doing a sidestep or a crushing attack. Not only that, many of her high tracking attacks are also out of range after this move. She does have a low sweep after 3P though, but it's not THAT helpful. Chances are that they already sidestepped the 3P, or the sweep is easily blocked. Or, you're once again put in the position above.

Long story short... Leifang having the better anti SS tools is not exactly true. Characters that have a circular 1P or equivalent move (Hitomi, Tina, Busa etc.) have the the better anti SS tools and have a HUGE advantage in this game. And so do characters that have a stand-alone circular mid, or a circular mid as the first attack in a string. Leifang is not one of those.

One thing that cannot be denied is that Kokoro still hits like a tank, and her grabs still do enormous amounts of damage.

Edit: I forgot that Leifang DOES have a standalone circular mid move. It's 7K. It is unsafe AND leaves you backturned though... Hm... Maybe I should try using that move more, in very specific situations. Maybe Leifang really does have everything... Too bad everything she does have is high risk.

 

[FlamingMuffin]

Kokoro’s main issue with SSAs is the number of times I’ve been crushed out of 6PP and heichu grabs, considering these are her only real defence against stepping.

If they cleared that up, I’d have a better time no doubt about it.

Still digging the heichu reset grab from 214T though

 

[Strangerinmytub]

You just tried to say Leifang suffers from sidesteps the same way Kokoro does but proceed to list a bunch of things that Leifang has to deal with steps that Kokoro doesnt? One of the worst parts about Kokoro is not having a string that tracks outside of 6pp, and you listed three strings for Leifang that have tracking built into them. A lot of people wait for Kokoro to start throwing a string and the moment it isn't a tracking single hit move they step, little guessing required. This leaves Leifang with 3 standalone tracking highs, 3 tracking strings, offensive holds, tracking low sweeps and kicks, and a spinning punch to deal with steps as opposed to Kokoro's 3 tracking highs and 2 tracking strings (one of which is a combo ender). You basically just proved that Leifang has it much better than Kokoro against steps.

Actually... Leifang suffers from the same problems that Kokoro has, and arguably, a few more.
Here's one example where Leifang has it worse.
Kokoro at least has a mid stand-alone move that tracks. You can throw it out immediately. Leifang does not have that luxury. All her tracking moves are either high (8P, 8K, 4K), or, they are the second or third attack in the string (4PP, PP6P, K2K). So with Leifang, at any point when attacking, you'd have to choose between trying to punish a sidestep and risk getting crushed, or do a linear mid attack expecting a crushing move and risk getting sidestepped. You can do an offensive hold as an alternative, but that doesn't help against low attacks, and with the amount of damage grabs do in this game, it's a high risk. The likes of Bayman and Christie are a nightmare to fight against because of this. I'm quite sure the same is true for Kokoro.

The issue with a lack of a low tracking move, Leifang has that also, albeit it's a bit different. Her stand-alone low kick is one of her worst moves, because it generally puts you in the exact position described above where you have to guess between the opponent doing a sidestep or a crushing attack. Not only that, many of her high tracking attacks are also out of range after this move. She does have a low sweep after 3P though, but it's not THAT helpful. Chances are that they already sidestepped the 3P, or the sweep is easily blocked. Or, you're once again put in the position above.

Long story short... Leifang having the better anti SS tools is not exactly true. Characters that have a circular 1P or equivalent move (Hitomi, Tina, Busa etc.) have the the better anti SS tools and have a HUGE advantage in this game. And so do characters that have a stand-alone circular mid, or a circular mid as the first attack in a string. Leifang is not one of those.

One thing that cannot be denied is that Kokoro still hits like a tank, and her grabs still do enormous amounts of damage.

Edit: I forgot that Leifang DOES have a standalone circular mid move. It's 7K. It is unsafe AND leaves you backturned though... Hm... Maybe I should try using that move more, in very specific situations. Maybe Leifang really does have everything... Too bad everything she does have is high risk.

 

[D_EEM_0]

You just tried to say Leifang suffers from sidesteps the same way Kokoro does but proceed to list a bunch of things that Leifang has to deal with steps that Kokoro doesnt? One of the worst parts about Kokoro is not having a string that tracks outside of 6pp, and you listed three strings for Leifang that have tracking built into them. A lot of people wait for Kokoro to start throwing a string and the moment it isn't a tracking single hit move they step, little guessing required. This leaves Leifang with 3 standalone tracking highs, 3 tracking strings, offensive holds, tracking low sweeps and kicks, and a spinning punch to deal with steps as opposed to Kokoro's 3 tracking highs and 2 tracking strings (one of which is a combo ender). You basically just proved that Leifang has it much better than Kokoro against steps.

Sorry but i gotta vouch for
Strangerinmytub

Tbh, people sidestep spam alot and Kokoro is virtually defenseless unless she decides to say screw combos and just look for the sidesteps.

 

[D_EEM_0]

But isn't it tracking? The move info says so iirc

It does track from standing, sometimes, but P2KT tends to be side steppable, or any of her stings that tie into heichu.

 

[NightAntilli]

You just tried to say Leifang suffers from sidesteps the same way Kokoro does but proceed to list a bunch of things that Leifang has to deal with steps that Kokoro doesnt? One of the worst parts about Kokoro is not having a string that tracks outside of 6pp, and you listed three strings for Leifang that have tracking built into them.

I can also list a few for Kokoro, aside from the 6PP you mentioned.
KK Tracks.
Everything that follows from her mid kick after multiple strings (PK, 1KK,BT 4PK etc.) has a tracking option.
H+K tracks.
4K tracks.
46PP tracks.
Heichu grab K (whether the grab misses or hits)

Does it still sound like Leifang has more than Kokoro?

Don't forget that Kokoro was my main in DOA4 and my second in DOA5. I know how she works.

A lot of people wait for Kokoro to start throwing a string and the moment it isn't a tracking single hit move they step, little guessing required. This leaves Leifang with 3 standalone tracking highs, 3 tracking strings, offensive holds, tracking low sweeps and kicks, and a spinning punch to deal with steps as opposed to Kokoro's 3 tracking highs and 2 tracking strings (one of which is a combo ender). You basically just proved that Leifang has it much better than Kokoro against steps.

I don't think you took all of Kokoro's tools into account. No one can play like they used to play.
Kokoro's lows always sucked.
Being a combo ender doesn't matter that much when the relevant strings are only two or three moves long.

 

[Strangerinmytub]

I can also list a few for Kokoro, aside from the 6PP you mentioned.
KK Tracks.
Everything that follows from her mid kick after multiple strings (PK, 1KK,BT 4PK etc.) has a tracking option.
H+K tracks.
4K tracks.
46PP tracks.
Heichu grab K (whether the grab misses or hits)

Does it still sound like Leifang has more than Kokoro?

Don't forget that Kokoro was my main in DOA4 and my second in DOA5. I know how she works.

I don't think you took all of Kokoro's tools into account. No one can play like they used to play.
Kokoro's lows always sucked.
Being a combo ender doesn't matter that much when the relevant strings are only two or three moves long.

The first three in your list are all the exact same high kick, and none of them outside of standalone HK will ever hit someone who steps midstring. For example if you throw PKK even if they don't step the initial P they can still step the second K and you won't even make it to the tracking kick. The other string examples you list include KK (unsafe on block but it's OK), 1KK and 4PK (you have to put yourself in backturned and hope they don't sidestep the first move that comes out of backturned because NONE of Kokoro's initial moves out of backturned track), 4K and heichu grab K are also the same kick with slightly different frame data, they are unsafe on block and are also slow as fuck (18 frames from neutral). 46PP is a great gap closer, but it's useless up close. The first part of the string is slow at 17 frames, and it only tracks on the second hit. When people realize that it's a free throw on block it's basically impractical to ever use it unless you are trying to cheese them from range. Kokoro has no circular punch, no evasive moves, no offensive holds, nor does she have any low tracking move.

So yes it does sound like Leifang has more than Kokoro. Against Kokoro the moment you see her start a string that isn't 6PP or K you can step and feel confident knowing that you will dodge 90% of follow up strikes. Against Leifang you have to be careful throwing out sidesteps because outside of her standalone tracking high kicks she also has longer range throws and Offensive Holds, Low Sweeps/Kicks, a circular punch, and multiple tracking strings that hit on either the second or third hit. Is Leifang the best at dealing with sidesteppers? Probably not, but from what you yourself have listed she has many more options to deal with them compared to Kokoro.

In regards to you saying that Kokoro used to be your main in older games, you said yourself that "no one can play like they used to play", so wouldn't that just mean your previous experience in other games is irrelevant since the mechanics have changed? I have over 1000 Kokoro ranked games clocked in on DOA6, and even setting personal skill and rank aside there are very clear things I notice about the character after 1000 games.

Finally, I actually do disagree with you saying "no one can play like they used to play", because that is only true for some characters. For characters like Honoka and Kokoro, sidestep attacks make them completely change the way they play. However, other characters like Ayane have so many built in tracking moves that it really is insignificant whether the opponent steps or not, their move will hit either way so they don't have to change the way they play at all. If sidestep attacks affected every character equally then I wouldn't really mind as much, but some characters are only marginally affected while others are basically removed because of it.

 

[NightAntilli]

So... I decided to jump into training mode to test a few things...

PKK, even though the opponent can sidestep the first kick, the circular kick hits before the sidestep attack lands. The same is true for 1KK, BT 4PKK.

PP being a natural combo, the second P cannot be sidestepped. I also found no scenario where the grab after PP could be dodged/escaped with a sidestep. Same is true for 3P grab, 2K grab, 236P+K grab and 66P+K grab. The grab will fail if the opponent inputs the sidestep attack AND you press grab too late.

Any situation with Heichu stance after block, (8P, 66P+K, 2H+K), Kokoro's kick hits before the sidestep attack.

I still don't see how she's worse than Leifang.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Put together a little something for those interested in taking up Kokoro:

 

[Strangerinmytub]

Put together a little something for those interested in taking up Kokoro:

Great guide, you cover pretty much all the information and have a good balance of technical and practical advice. Only things I can think of that you left out are-

1. S tracks and when you hit someone who is stepping it also puts them in that spinning backturned stun, which guarantees you two limbo stuns (YinCrescent made a post about it somewhere, I think it's 66P, 4PP, 66P, Launcher)
2. The last move of her combo reset throw (24T, 4T, 26T/24T) counts as a Heichu, meaning you can use any of her 4 heichu follow ups immediately after you finish the throw.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Great guide, you cover pretty much all the information and have a good balance of technical and practical advice. Only things I can think of that you left out are-

1. S tracks and when you hit someone who is stepping it also puts them in that spinning backturned stun, which guarantees you two limbo stuns (YinCrescent made a post about it somewhere, I think it's 66P, 4PP, 66P, Launcher)
2. The last move of her combo reset throw (24T, 4T, 26T/24T) counts as a Heichu, meaning you can use any of her 4 heichu follow ups immediately after you finish the throw.

Yup, S's are universal anti-step moves. I had that on the back of my mind and knew that 214T~4T~214T leads into Heichu, hell, the last combo challenge ends with Heichu~P+K haha (though it was an air throw). Thanks for the reminder though. The 3rd part of the chain throw is basically like a buffed 236T throw, it's awesome in DOA6. Really scary. Ah, I also forgot to mention that 1T can set up S for a Fatal Stun also. That's going in the Info. section. I'm trying to make notes for too many characters haha.

 

[lawgamer]

Guys, could you give me a clue about one thing: What's the point of Kokoro as a character?

I mean, everybody got something going on for them. Bass is awfully slow but has a vortex and hits like a bus, Helena can stance/crouch through everything, Leifang has great holds, etc.

As for Kokoro, I initially thought she is mid ranged. Was terribly wrong here. As for close quarters combat she has Heichu... And thats all it seems. Others got faster jabs and mids, better evasion, better tracking and other stuff. I don't mean to hate on this girl at all! Just want to understand how to handle her properly.

And yes, I've watched the guide above! No revelations there, the properties of her moves are well known (training mode helps a lot). The one thing that stuck with me: "You gotta land her elbows"

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Kokoro is one of the safest overall strikers in DOA6. Her pressure in close range is good thanks to semi-safe delayable strings, good high-mid-low mix-ups and 2 awesome throws in 236T and the 214T chain throws. She is great to use against defensive opponents like most Bajiquan fighters. Kokoro is not a mid-ranged fighter, but she can still competently fight from mid-range. It's just that her strength is to fight in close. Basically the point of Kokoro is strong, relatively safe mix-up pressure offense.

And yes, her 66P is still damn good, especially now with no slow escape. Wouldn't be a Bajiquan fighter without good elbows.

 

[lawgamer]

Kokoro is one of the safest overall strikers in DOA6. Her pressure in close range is good thanks to semi-safe delayable strings, good high-mid-low mix-ups and 2 awesome throws in 236T and the 214T chain throws. She is great to use against defensive opponents like most Bajiquan fighters. Kokoro is not a mid-ranged fighter, but she can still competently fight from mid-range. It's just that her strength is to fight in close.

Thanks for your advice! But do you really think her low game is strong? No tracking sweep and d+H+K is negative on hit... This move got my preassure killed a lot of times

 

[Strangerinmytub]

Guys, could you give me a clue about one thing: What's the point of Kokoro as a character?

I mean, everybody got something going on for them. Bass is awfully slow but has a vortex and hits like a bus, Helena can stance/crouch through everything, Leifang has great holds, etc.

As for Kokoro, I initially thought she is mid ranged. Was terribly wrong here. As for close quarters combat she has Heichu... And thats all it seems. Others got faster jabs and mids, better evasion, better tracking and other stuff. I don't mean to hate on this girl at all! Just want to understand how to handle her properly.

And yes, I've watched the guide above! No revelations there, the properties of her moves are well known (training mode helps a lot). The one thing that stuck with me: "You gotta land her elbows"

Kokoro stylistically is an easy character and a well-rounded character. Her strings are simple and her strikes do solid damage, her holds do tolerable damage and her throws actually do a TON of damage. She doesn't excel at any of these but she isn't particularly weak in any of them either, a jack-of-all-trades character with lots of options to mind game the opponent...but there are two general things that Imo hold her back.

1. SSA and SS kill Kokoro because none of her Heichu setups track, meaning you have to utilize two fighting styles: a style where you can reliably open up turtles and put the opponent in a blender or 2. a style where you throw tracking moves to catch sidesteps. The main issue here is that you can't do both at the same time, which makes it much easier for your opponent to deal with you. If a Kokoro is doing PPT or P2KT a lot the opponent steps to beat it, but when the Kokoro switches to tracking kicks and 6pp it is much easier for the opponent to throw punish and turtle. This is frustrating as a Kokoro player because many other characters don't have to change their style to deal with steps because they have built in tracking or tools that beat steps.

2. Kokoro struggles at range. I'm not really sure what is defined as "mid-range", but lots of characters have moves that outrange 66p and S, and Kokoro is hot garbage when the opponent stands out there. Kokoro has two tools to close this kind of distance without getting stuffed by a SSA, 46PP and her 1K strings. Her high tracking moves are all unsafe on block, her tracking kicks are relatively short range, and her throws don't have great range either.

As a third note, high crushes absolutely gut Kokoro. Helena and Brad straight up hard counter Kokoro because they just duck 90% of your moves, and it doesn't help that Kokoro's lows are pretty garbage (no sweep, no tracking lows, generally slow as hell, hard to get a stun out of a low).

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Thanks for your advice! But do you really think her low game is strong? No tracking sweep and d+H+K is negative on hit... This move got my preassure killed a lot of times

Her low game in itself isn't strong. Just when mixed up with her highs & mids. Her lows are still good on CH including 2H+K.