MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
I thought winning dealt with actually being good and skill. Not hiding shit. But back on topic what are we gonna do with the TFC around the corner and with nothing decided.
Lets be serious here Alpha-152 needs to be banned.
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Labbing is also a skill. There's loads of people who lab monster all day and can't play at all. Just as many people who are great at using what they have, but are terrible at discovering new tech.
XV MR ARMANI
Active Member
there really shouldnt be a ban imo.
if the character is good let them be good until proven beatable. banning characters cuts off the full presentation of the game. what if a SC or TTT2 player that isn't interested in DOA but once they see alpha, or rachel on the big screen whipping ass they'll be intrigued & BOOM their interested in the game.
more players to the community is always a good thing right? & while some characters have certain tools that others dont, every character in DOA has some level of viability. if TN decides to patch shit out cause we're complaining it'll take the drive out of players to want to beat the said broken character. when your in the lab trying to crack open a character's weaknesses it's fulfilling cause when your able to beat a "broken" character it.. just feels good as hell. & that's what it's about, discovering stuff.
this isnt the kind of game where every character has the same tech. this game is not only graphically dope as hell but every character shares one thing. DIVERSITY.
TLDR: no ban, cuts off presentation of the game at majors. stop whining and hit the lab. TN ain't that stupid.
if the character is good let them be good until proven beatable. banning characters cuts off the full presentation of the game. what if a SC or TTT2 player that isn't interested in DOA but once they see alpha, or rachel on the big screen whipping ass they'll be intrigued & BOOM their interested in the game.
more players to the community is always a good thing right? & while some characters have certain tools that others dont, every character in DOA has some level of viability. if TN decides to patch shit out cause we're complaining it'll take the drive out of players to want to beat the said broken character. when your in the lab trying to crack open a character's weaknesses it's fulfilling cause when your able to beat a "broken" character it.. just feels good as hell. & that's what it's about, discovering stuff.
this isnt the kind of game where every character has the same tech. this game is not only graphically dope as hell but every character shares one thing. DIVERSITY.
TLDR: no ban, cuts off presentation of the game at majors. stop whining and hit the lab. TN ain't that stupid.
I believe that 90% of these posters have little knowledge or experience in actual tournament settings,.yet wanna call shots. Just some online warriors crying about match.ups. Just because people can spam safe moves online and win doesnt mean shit
. Game has been out for A week, seriously.
. Game has been out for A week, seriously.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
I don't think Why is an online warrior.
XV MR ARMANI
Active Member
& would it matter? that's why it's a discussion.
R4712-VR88
Active Member
I know. I'm just stating ALPHA-152 has been the only one that people are wanting banned. Unless there's something new that I haven't heard about. Sure Rachel has a lot going for her but there are some ways around her and she isn't at that level of play that ALPHA-152 has. Nearing it but not there.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Rachel is definitely not ban worthy. She has good tools, but she is also linear, limited strings, barely any tracking and her mids are all 13-16 frames. Though I will admit that seeing PPT being an actual move for her made me laugh quite loudly given the staple of the "online tactic" of PPT since DoA2U debut lol.
The difference between Alpha and Rachel are astronomical. When Rachel moves at the speed of light, never ending strings and the benefits of doing a ridiculous amount of damage from both strikes and throws then we can talk. Until then its not even close.
The difference between Alpha and Rachel are astronomical. When Rachel moves at the speed of light, never ending strings and the benefits of doing a ridiculous amount of damage from both strikes and throws then we can talk. Until then its not even close.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
but i have seen the rachel vortex.
synce
Well-Known Member
So uh how much damage do Alpha's counters do? And can Alpha chain several sit down stuns together into a force tech that deals 40%?
28 pages and some people still refuse to learn Alpha matchup. I'll give you a hint, if you want to beat Alpha you have to be more aggressive than her. If you sit there looking for an opening, you'll have a tough time. Same can be said for the Virtuas.
Oh yeah let's ban them too BTW. And maybe Helena just for the hell of it
Raansu
Well-Known Member
So uh how much damage do Alpha's counters do? And can Alpha chain several sit down stuns together into a force tech that deals 40%?
28 pages and some people still refuse to learn Alpha matchup. I'll give you a hint, if you want to beat Alpha you have to be more aggressive than her. If you sit there looking for an opening, you'll have a tough time. Same can be said for the Virtuas.
Oh yeah let's ban them too BTW. And maybe Helena just for the hell of it
I'd like to see you try and chain those sit down stuns... The only one you can "chain" is 7k into 8p and doing that would be pure stupidity given that 7k can guarantee 9k while if you opt to chain into 8p...well you just fucked yourself because 8p only gives +13 during a SE which means you get nothing guaranteed. So pray tell why would you chain into sit down stuns and risk getting blocked/held? Did you just go into combo training and see the 8k/8k combo and go "lol broke" without bothering to look at the frame data including SE frames?
Also, Alpha does not need counters to do damage. Fuck she shouldn't even have a parry. Also, please do explain how you "pressure" a character with aggression that is faster than the rest of the cast and can pressure you with the throw damage of a grappler? You talk about match ups yet you don't even know what you're talking about yourself.
I having a difficult time seeing how I can be more aggressive than Pai when she has insane frame and crush advantage over me 100% of the time.
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synce
Well-Known Member
The Rachel combo I'm talking about is totally guaranteed on fast SE, no one's ever broken it.
And while I'm here I'm going to go over a few of Alpha's weaknesses, even though I know they'll be ignored
- Nothing guaranteed
- Zero damage from counters
- No wake up kicks
- No NH launcher
- Featherweight
These facts only apply to Alpha and add up to a character that's one huge gamble. I'm willing to bet you won't see someone gamble on Alpha at TFC or any major. At most you will see someone take her out for a match or two
Again, it's silly to ban a character that isn't even dominating the scene. What are you accomplishing? It just makes the community look weak.
David Gregg
Well-Known Member
I'm going to throw this crazy/absurd/wtf idea out there (but like I said before Alpha-152 isn't the only character who is unbalanced imo):
Limit the use of Alpha to 1 set (regardless of if it wins or loses). It's sort of a middle ground to the issue. She can still be used competitively but another character will still be needed to win the game.
It also sort of "tests the waters" so to speak at TFC. If you notice a lot of players using her for the 3rd set to win the game it could help guide your decisions to the next steps that need to be made.
Limit the use of Alpha to 1 set (regardless of if it wins or loses). It's sort of a middle ground to the issue. She can still be used competitively but another character will still be needed to win the game.
It also sort of "tests the waters" so to speak at TFC. If you notice a lot of players using her for the 3rd set to win the game it could help guide your decisions to the next steps that need to be made.
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I voted no. some of her nerfs can be considered buffs, but if you practice on how to fight her, she isn't really a problem.
(1) They nerfed her parry. If you anticipate getting parried, you can do moves that have quick recovery against her, get parried, and sidestep the hit. (otherwise she breaks your guard, and is left at +17)
(2) She is much lighter than the rest of the cast. This can ruin your combos unless you come up with combos specifically for her. If you do, you can rack up the damage.
(3) Her frame advantage has been reduced on anything that ends in 66p. Her frame advantage has been completely removed from all of her kick strings that end in 7k, leaving her at -5
(4) Her floating stance mid punch follow up leaves her wide open for an easy low throw.
She's still good, and still has those ridiculous throws that take over half your life, but she is more balanced now than she was before.
(1) They nerfed her parry. If you anticipate getting parried, you can do moves that have quick recovery against her, get parried, and sidestep the hit. (otherwise she breaks your guard, and is left at +17)
(2) She is much lighter than the rest of the cast. This can ruin your combos unless you come up with combos specifically for her. If you do, you can rack up the damage.
(3) Her frame advantage has been reduced on anything that ends in 66p. Her frame advantage has been completely removed from all of her kick strings that end in 7k, leaving her at -5
(4) Her floating stance mid punch follow up leaves her wide open for an easy low throw.
She's still good, and still has those ridiculous throws that take over half your life, but she is more balanced now than she was before.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Then by all means enlighten me.
Not sure what you mean by "guaranteed damage," but if you mean "damage that is ensured after one attack is successfully landed, I'd say that a 1/3 to 1/2-health, inescapable throw is pretty damn guaranteed.
Having no NH launcher is not really a big weakness. A NH launch is so rare in a real match, and really only occurs in the rare instance that someone tried to guard low and winds up eating a mid launcher, which are typically quite slow.
synce
Well-Known Member
If we're going to talk about throws let's look at Tina whose 364T is nearly twice as fast as Alpha's 236236T, much harder to see coming, and does 130 damage. Yes, Alpha has better strings, but when you start hitting her you don't have to worry about counters. When you start hitting Tina you have to worry about a good chunk of your lifebar disappearing suddenly.
And I'll just leave with this. You know how everyone whined about Helena's force tech? How everyone is currently whining about Rachel's? When you use Alpha, not just those two but every character gets a force tech on you every time. If people knew how to capitalize on that, they wouldn't be whining about Alpha.
Bottom line: Alpha has no defense. If you can't take advantage of that fact, you only have yourself to blame. But I understand it's much easier to blame the character
And I'll just leave with this. You know how everyone whined about Helena's force tech? How everyone is currently whining about Rachel's? When you use Alpha, not just those two but every character gets a force tech on you every time. If people knew how to capitalize on that, they wouldn't be whining about Alpha.
Bottom line: Alpha has no defense. If you can't take advantage of that fact, you only have yourself to blame. But I understand it's much easier to blame the character
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