Lisa Matchups thread

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
Brad is quite the challenge for me as well. What is it that gives you the most trouble? I have a hard time when he does the handstand stance.
You can oH him. It will work the same as if he was just stand there. Problem is, he can do an throw out of the stance which can beat out OHs (unless that throw itself is an OH, is it?). I personally use :7::K: or :4::h::+::K: when i see him go into the handstand. There is no point in trying to do strings on him when he is in that stance because one hit and he'll just fall and not get stunned. You can launch him with :3::3::P: or :3::3::K: (I'm not entirely sure, this happened twice and i launch him but it was on counter hit) but you will have to do that very fast because he won't just sit there and let you think of what you have to do lol unless he's a nice guy or whatever XD.
 

ToiletMangoes

Well-Known Member
You can oH him. It will work the same as if he was just stand there. Problem is, he can do an throw out of the stance which can beat out OHs (unless that throw itself is an OH, is it?). I personally use :7::K: or :4::h::+::K: when i see him go into the handstand. There is no point in trying to do strings on him when he is in that stance because one hit and he'll just fall and not get stunned. You can launch him with :3::3::P: or :3::3::K: (I'm not entirely sure, this happened twice and i launch him but it was on counter hit) but you will have to do that very fast because he won't just sit there and let you think of what you have to do lol unless he's a nice guy or whatever XD.
I think that is OH throw but not sure. Seems like it would be better to punish with an OH and stun rather than a launcher. Brad is a midweight so wouldn't it be unlikely to juggle or grab him after? Thanks for the input. I'm sure Brad is a nice guy except when he's sober.
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
I think that is OH throw but not sure. Seems like it would be better to punish with an OH and stun rather than a launcher. Brad is a midweight so wouldn't it be unlikely to juggle or grab him after? Thanks for the input. I'm sure Brad is a nice guy except when he's sober.
When he goes into that stance the best choice probably isn't an oH or a launcher/attack. Its best to use a good "GTFO ME!" move instead, like :4::h::+::K: Or if you can, make a good read and hold/duck.. Blocking just isnt good, its just not. Sure you can make a good guess but its a 50/50 just like WUKs. Hes gonna grab or attack one or the other. He can do everything from that stance, mid kicks, throws, low punch. Its just crazy, use the number 1 GTFO ME move in the game a.k.a Lisa's :4::h::+::K:
 

ToiletMangoes

Well-Known Member
When he goes into that stance the best choice probably isn't an oH or a launcher/attack. Its best to use a good "GTFO ME!" move instead, like :4::h::+::K: Or if you can, make a good read and hold/duck.. Blocking just isnt good, its just not. Sure you can make a good guess but its a 50/50 just like WUKs. Hes gonna grab or attack one or the other. He can do everything from that stance, mid kicks, throws, low punch. Its just crazy, use the number 1 GTFO ME move in the game a.k.a Lisa's :4::h::+::K:
I love that move but I don't use it as often as I should.
 

ailingeternity

Active Member
Yes Brad's handstand is very hard for Lisa to punish and deal with even on block, the best method would be to try and interrupt him from mid range in this situation, at close range you are almost completely locked down because of how safe his moves are. My biggest issue with Brad is his :1::K:, It's a great close ranged crush that has annoying follow-ups if you're hit by them. His ranged game is also quite hard to punish since he has good safety his :7::K: can be a bugger of a keepout tool as well, the hitbox on it is insane.
 

ToiletMangoes

Well-Known Member
Yes Brad's handstand is very hard for Lisa to punish and deal with even on block, the best method would be to try and interrupt him from mid range in this situation, at close range you are almost completely locked down because of how safe his moves are. My biggest issue with Brad is his :1::K:, It's a great close ranged crush that has annoying follow-ups if you're hit by them. His ranged game is also quite hard to punish since he has good safety his :7::K: can be a bugger of a keepout tool as well, the hitbox on it is insane.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has trouble in that situation.
 

Tones

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Pitbull Brad Wong. Lisa has too many decent mids for any crushes. Brad sucks close in, his only options are to make distance, or crush/sidestep.

Keep it stupidly simple. 6p 6pp 6ppp 6pk 3pp 3p work that bullshit. Otherwise 6p4p(2p) 1pk 1pp(2p) 66pk(2p) pkk4 2kk4 all into 3p then CB. Otherwise pkk k3k 6k 2k3k 6pk damn donno make your own game up. Work one thing thats simple if they adjust then you work the next thing. Her throws are enough to scare everyone from countering, and if they ain't scared, throw them.

If Brad Handstands close in, 4k+f into carrera is a good option. If it's at distance BT p+k or running p+k, running 2k+f. If in mid range 7kp, 7kp, 7k6, 36p, booty bump, BT 8p+k, BT 6p+h. Heaps of options, again stick to one thing to make it easy to remember. Personally I'd BT p+k for style points, 4p+k close in, but if I was serious mid and long distance 236p and running p+k or booty bump because it's the most likely to hit.
 
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HoodsXx

Well-Known Member
Alright, so I see we're talking about good ol drunkard bastard Brad Wong here. Now when it comes to talking about MU's you gotta really go in depth about it. So I'm going to state all of the things Brad can do, and some things that Lisa players can do, to stop him.

First off let's talk about their speeds
Brad: 12/14/15 vs Lisa: 11/14/16

Now some of you may not know, but at R1F these are Brad Wong's options that he can go to, though not preferred against Lisa. There's HS K (11i), there's BT 2P (11i) and lastly WR KK (12i), Lisa has P (11i), and 4H+K (11i). Just from me giving out these speeds you can already tell who has the upper hand here. In this instance, Lisa beats Brad on all of those because even though HS K and BT 2P are both 11i, they both lose out in damage to Lisa's 4H+K.

Let's now talk about his stances. For HS stance he has, 1K2K8 1P8 LFT K8. Out of all of these he really can only get options from 2 of them in stun. That being 1K2K8 leaving him at +7 or +8 if you don't SE and +2 if you do SE fully, and LFT K8 which on NH is a lift stun. Now on block many of you may find LFT K8 to be a problem because he's at +1, making his HS K which was (11i), into a 10i mid kick. Luckily for Lisa she doesn't have to respect that period and can jab him out of it whenever she feels like it. So that option is gone immediately. No, HS P doesn't instant low crush, so that can't be used to crush the high, nor can HS H+K, which is -13 anyways on block. Now yes, you can't juggle him since he falls to the floor, but that shouldn't be a problem anyways because Lisa has ways to stop wake up kicks, so in that area she's fine imo, and can continue her pressure without much worry.

Second stance we shall now talk about is Crane stance also known as DHO. The way he can enter this stance is as follows: KK4 (+1), PP8 on NH is -22, on hit. His other options include 6PK4 (-7) on block, 3K4 which is -10 on block. There's not much to really talk about that's difficult for Lisa at this point, other than to talk about KK4, KK on it's own jails on block, so you have to be careful of the mix with KKK or KK2K. When he is in DHO stance his fastest move from there is DHO 4K which puts him at some distance, though he can still be punished, but the scary thing about it, is that it's a lift stun which gives him 2 options since he's at +25 on highest SE, from that range he's got 66P which is a crumple stun at this point if it hits, or he's got DHO 2KT which can be block or held, but it's still a mixup in itself, if you try to hit a button he's also got his 19i OH that he can throw out. Now DHO 4K is 13i, making it 12i. Normally you'd think that 11i moves can easily stuff it, but you'll get stuffed everything for trying to throw out a 6P or 4H+K etc. So your option from there is to just jab him out of the stance. You may find that useless, but her jab is (11i), and +1 on NH, giving her pressure on Brad instantly, as he's got no options to deal with what is now 9/10/13 at that range.

Lastly let's talk about his laydown stance which I'm sure drives everyone insane. I'll explain how this works, so others can understand how to fully break down this stance in their own findings when they come to learn about different MU's etc, concerning Brad Wong and their specific character.

The way in how Brad's laydown stance works is that the only way for him to crush any sort of mid that isn't a true mid with LHT8/LFT8 is if he moves whilist in laydown. That being if he does his OH, LFT8/LHT8/LHT4/LFT4 or LHT/LFT H for his low parry (HE HAS A LOW PARRY WHAT!?). Anyways, this can only happen though during the first few active frames while he's moving on the ground. What does that mean folks? That means if he's trying to use his movement during laydown to crush your mid it means either delay the initial mid poke. Now if you have a mid poke that has no follow-up and you want to use this method, it requires you to have really good reactions and knowing when to throw out the poke to get the stun off on him. The other and easier way to go around this, is to use a mid poke, that has a relatively fast low or mid follow-up that can hit him out of the stance. Preferably 6K2K I believe for Lisa. This is probably the fastest and easiest way to stop his laydown stance up close. Now if he goes into laydown stance on block, you've got your amazing low OH. Now you may be thinking the low OH is really risky, but the beauty about the low OH is that it forces the Brad player to not only stop commiting to moves that put him in TC (Tech Crouching status) but it also forces him to try and throw after throwing out a move that's semi punishable to stop your low OH which gives you a free HC hit. At mid range she's actually got quite a few options, them being 6H+K, 4P+K, run up and bait out a move with her 1H+K. That's everything about Brad that's important that you need to know. I won't discredit what Tones had wrote because what he wrote is true too and also works against Brad. Good luck continuing to learn the match up Lisa players! :D

NanhouDrops~
 
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Force_of_Nature

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Wow! Thanks for the info man! Brad is a constant source of annoyance for me and I'm sure most other Lisa players.

Lol, but not Ayane though. It's the other way around xD. But I try to fight Brad with anyone else and it sucks -_-.

I can't imagine how much of a pain in the ass he must be for Lisa. When in doubt, hold Mid K or low grab.
 

HoodsXx

Well-Known Member
Lol, but not Ayane though. It's the other way around xD. But I try to fight Brad with anyone else and it sucks -_-.

I can't imagine how much of a pain in the ass he must be for Lisa. When in doubt, hold Mid K or low grab.

Man... This nigga here ^ good ol nigga of mine shits on my Brad all day With Ayane. Sadly Ayane = more BS than Brad, but Marie will solve that issue. ;)
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
The point of that thread was to set some ground rules so everyone is happy in a non hostile and most importantly "controlled" manner.

No such rallying was happening.

This is the reason I did not just blindly start a new thread.

So if you have any suggestions please do share.

Constantly Locking threads however does not help the situation nor does it justify the lock in the 1st place.
 

Gruff757

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
An addition to Lisa match-up that applies to everyone (not just Tina) is that Lisa is never at advantage when she goes BT. If she goes BT, hit her with your fastest mid.

Also, if you get hit or block her 66K, and she goes into her run stance; just jab. Worst case scenario, you get knocked down.
Or stunned, or whiff punished due to canceling the stance.

You also don't want to get knocked away by Lisa because thats putting her in a position that she thrives in. Mid to Long range.

Simply jabbing isn't going to solve everything with carrera stance.

Also with BT, you're right, but don't get too comfortable with attacking everytime since she can still block, and she can simply not go into BT in anticipation of an attack and try to take a chance at holding. It should go without saying but don't try to attack her if she transitions into BT after hitting you, because thats when she IS at advantage.
 

Darth Lotonic X

Active Member
Or stunned, or whiff punished due to canceling the stance.

Implying that whiff punishing a jab is an easy feat.

You also don't want to get knocked away by Lisa because thats putting her in a position that she thrives in. Mid to Long range.

Against Tina this is bad, but I think you are overstating Lisa's range game.

Simply jabbing isn't going to solve everything with carrera stance.

My statement was about the 66K transition.

I'll elaborate on that, after 66K6 you have:

H+P, OH throw- Loses to jab.
K - Loses to jab
P - Forgot about this move earlier. Beats jab, but just adds a 50/50 to the mix.
2K(H+K? Forgot input) - Character Dependent, but jab should recover fast enough to block with some characters.
P+K - Beats jab.
Cancel - If you cancel in my face, you get to eat a jab. Whiff punishing after cancel seems unlikely.

Also with BT, you're right, but don't get too comfortable with attacking everytime since she can still block, and she can simply not go into BT in anticipation of an attack and try to take a chance at holding.

The point of the mid is to stop Lisa's bullshit. To tell her "No, it's my turn to attack now!".
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
I didn't know where else to put this I figured I would just Stuff it right here.

So you know the AI loves using Lisa's running attacks right ? Well during one such instance I accidentally did Tina's :2::P+K: Roll instead and she Managed to roll right under and past Lisa's Running :P+K:...... so I did it again..... samething happened. Now I was on the Desert Stage so I don't know if works on a perfectly Flat Surface. I'l probably test it out one day. Anyway I figure I would give the Luchadors a small heads up.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I don't think the current meta-game for this character should in any way rely on running moves as they're a risk. It's better to feint a run and switch between BT and FT to catch people with better tools like her BT OH or backdash into a run.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
LoL.... and here I was ready to celebrate.... oh well. Perhaps I'l get luck again.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Neither, unfortunately. :(

All I can do is learn Characters.... and I'm running out of Characters.
 
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