Low holds should not beat standing throws.

[DR2K]

Oh, you mean by saying low throw punishment is inconsistent because the lack of long recovery forces you to guess when to low throw? If you have successfully read your opponent's patterns (as I've suggested), then your "guess" becomes significantly more effective than just throwing it out.

Maybe instead of getting annoyed with certain nuances of a game mechanic and calling out for a change that will reward you for mashing throw against a stunned opponent, how about investing more time and effort into evolving your play around said mechanic where you are then able to do what few others do.

Complain less. Train more.

Because it is based on offline tournmanet footage. It's not something you can consistantly do since no one can. It's completely based on prediction. Training doesn't work, aka DOA4.

Guess more for a guess? No thanks. We have Team Ninja's ear so we can actually make low holding honest.

Why should low holds have more defensive properties than every other hold?

 

[DR2K]

You pointed out the "pros" on why you think low counter should not beat standing throws, and I pointed out the "cons" of low countering that says other wise. How does this NOT make sense? Every counter has it's pros and cons. For example you take more damage from standing throws if your hi DH is CT. Low DH you chance getting hit with a CB, and I usually use a move that force my opponent into a sit down stun if I know they're going to low counter. Low counter got plenty of ways of being punish making your argument invalid. Unless you have some other reason other wise?

I'm not asking for pros and cons, I know them. I don't need 600 make shift scenerios.

Go ahead and answer why low holds should have more defensive options then every other hold. Why should it have evasion properities that other holds don't get?

 

[MajesticBlue]

I think maybe it should be the other way around. If low holds are so evasive, why ever go high or do a standing throw? Highs and throws are in general your better moves. Either because of them being faster or giving better damage. You are taking a risk, the reward is better damage.

 

[Prince Adon]

Because you already have two standing DHs(high/mid) that is punished by stand up throws(especially hi DH), if you don't hold correctly. Low DH is a way of avoiding being standing punished while still chancing being punished by mids and low thows without being guaranteed anything after recovery. So why should low hold be able to be beaten by standing throws? For characters like Hayabusa to be able to Izuna you more than he aleady can?

 

[DR2K]

I think maybe it should be the other way around. If low holds are so evasive, why ever go high or do a standing throw? Highs and throws are in general your better moves. Either because of them being faster or giving better damage. You are taking a risk, the reward is better damage.

High and throws already have risks associated with them, everything does.

 

[MrMoon360]

I think the low holds are still a little too forgiving. It seems they recover out of my stun combo into critical burst using them, but maybe that's just online.
I use Akira specifically.

 

[Game Over]

Because it is based on offline tournmanet footage. It's not something you can consistantly do since no one can. It's completely based on prediction. Training doesn't work, aka DOA4.

If you want to just write it off as something that can't be done, that's your problem. You're only limiting yourself by not elevating yourself to go above and beyond what others are doing. Fact of the matter is you have more control over how you play the game than you do over what TN puts into it. And here you are calling out for changes rather than working to find your own solution.

 

[DR2K]

Because you already have two standing DHs(high/mid) that is punished by stand up throws(especially hi DH), if you don't hold correctly. Low DH is a way of avoiding being standing punished while still chancing being punished by mids and low thows without being guaranteed anything after recovery. So why should low hold be able to be beaten by standing throws?

Because low holds beat all highs and lows vs the other 3 holds only being able to beat what they're intended to.They also evade throws and recover faster than most.

The other 3 have a lot more risk and a specific purpose vs low holds that have a lot more utility.

 

[MrMoon360]

And here you are calling out for changes rather than working to find your own solution.

If certain changes are necessary to make a game more balanced, I don't see the problem with the call.

 

[TheTHCGamer]

Low holding already beats all highs, holds all low attacks, and all standing throws.It also recovers fast enough to beat out whiffed attacks. It does too much imo.

I reccomend that a standing throw cause an unholdable stun for low holds.

I agree there are too many times youll whiff when someone does a low hold which leaves you open for a counter. I just feel its to safe and it feels like an accidental guess that to many times leaves you at advantage. You should be punished for guessing wrong not rewarded but thats just me.

 

[Prince Adon]

Because low holds beat all highs and lows vs the other 3 holds only being able to beat what they're intended to.They also evade throws and recover faster than most.

The other 3 have a lot more risk and a specific purpose vs low holds that have a lot more utility.

Which it balanced those risk while still risking being punished while the person who did the low DH isn't guaranteed anything.

If certain changes are necessary to make a game more balanced, I don't see the problem with the call.

It doesn't mess up the balance of the game.

 

[DR2K]

If you want to just write it off as something that can't be done, that's your problem. You're only limiting yourself by not elevating yourself to go above and beyond what others are doing. Fact of the matter is you have more control over how you play the game than you do over what TN puts into it. And here you are calling out for changes rather than working to find your own solution.

Your solution is to guess right. Hence why it's being written off.If you find a way to punish random low holds consistantly then by all means share it with the community.

Which it balanced those risk while still risking being punished while the person who did the low DH isn't guaranteed anything..

How is one option having more utility balanced?

 

[MasterHavik]

*faceplam*

I make it my job to bait out low counters and low throw the fools that do them.

 

[Game Over]

If certain changes are necessary to make a game more balanced, I don't see the problem with the call.

Sure, if a change to the game will be useful, the request for it is fair. What I'm trying to get at here is people investing more time and/or energy into calling out for changes instead of working to improve their level of play. If a particular mechanic needs some adjustment, I'm sure all the top/active players are aware of it ... but how often do you see guys like PL, RyuJin, Rikuto, Sorwah, NinjaCW, etc. on here calling out for changes? I'd say they are all spending more time playing the game than complaining about the game.

 

[Prince Adon]

Your solution is to guess right. Hence why it's being written off.If you find a way to punish random low holds consistantly then by all means share it with the community.



How is one option having more utility balanced?

You are complaining because low countering can't be punished consistently, but what do the person get out of doing a low DH? NOTHING. Unless you do a low attack. Which you know this is an option for someone who is stunned. You have the option to do a mid punch/kick which the person doing a low DH which they chance being punished by doing. Because they would have to Guess an low DH is safe, or guess rather you're going to do a mid punch/kick or a throw. Putting the person doing low countering at a more disadvantage, plus longer recovery. Again. I don't see how this messes up the "balance" of the game. Like GO been saying it just seems more like the issue of how you play.

 

[MrMoon360]

*faceplam*

I make it my job to bait out low counters and low throw the fools that do them.

Doesn't anyone?

But why does the low hold have as many defensive parameters as it does?
That is what DR2K is asking.
How is this balanced?
Sure you can beat it. But that doesn't merit that the mechanic is balanced. That's just silly.

 

[Game Over]

Your solution is to guess right. Hence why it's being written off.If you find a way to punish random low holds consistantly then by all means share it with the community.

If you want to improve your game, I hear this thread is useful for some in guiding their approach to the game (granted, the guide was written for DOA4, not DOA5):
http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...training-suggestion-for-aspiring-players.166/

 

[Dr Sexual]

You need to play better players if people panic low holding (Shoeshining) to "evade" stuff is a consistent issue in your matches.

 

[Prince Adon]

Doesn't anyone?

But why does the low hold have as many defensive parameters as it does?
That is what DR2K is asking.
How is this balanced?
Sure you can beat it. But that doesn't merit that the mechanic is balanced. That's just silly.

No, you're just saying "it isn't treated like the other two holds so it's unbalanced" which isn't how balance work. You have to see how the other factors of the gameplay effect this which is why I don't see how it is "unbalanced".

 

[DR2K]

If you want to improve your game, I hear this thread is useful for some in guiding their approach to the game (granted, the guide was written for DOA4, not DOA5):
http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...training-suggestion-for-aspiring-players.166/

Another cop out answer that doesn't answer the question asked of you.

but what do the person get out of doing a low DH? NOTHING

Reset the entire situation in their favor is a lot more than nothing.