Low holds should not beat standing throws.

[MrMoon360]

You are complaining because low countering can't be punished consistently, but what do the person get out of doing a low DH? NOTHING. Unless you do a low attack.

Or unless, of course it recovers faster than a whiffed attack.

 

[Prince Adon]

Reset the entire situation in their favor is a lot more than nothing.

Offender has the advantage. Don't let it reset. Its not as much of a guessing game as other doa game. You generally can earn more than enough punishment in this game.

 

[DR2K]

You need to play better players if people panic low holding (Shoeshining) to "evade" stuff is a consistent issue in your matches.

It shouldn't do what it does period. I've seen it all types of matches from scrubfests to high level players where low hold is being used beyond its scope.

Offender has the advantage. Don't let it reset. Its not as much of a guessing game as other doa game. You generally can earn more than enough punishment in this game.

They lose it when their attack is whiffed, they lose it when their throw is whiffed. These are facts.

 

[Game Over]

Another cop out answer that doesn't answer the question asked of you.

Ok, then. Continue on. Maybe TN is currently watching this thread and will quickly put your request on the top of their update priority list.

 

[Prince Adon]

That's how low holds is used in DOA. Just because it's not like other fighters doesn't mean it's not meant, or shouldn't be that way.

 

[MajesticBlue]

Then don't use highs or standing throws when you get them in stun. If the risk isn't worth it, don't do it. If they randomly hold they have a 1 in 4 chance of getting out of it. 1 in 3 if they never high hold. There is always guessing when it comes to the stun game.

I would like to see more recovery on low holds. That I can agree with. Even if you add more recovery frames and change the state to standing you will still have to guess. So that will not fix your problem.

 

[DR2K]

I would like to see more recovery on low holds. That I can agree with. Even if you add more recovery frames and change the state to standing you will still have to guess. So that will not fix your problem.

With enough recovery frames it becomes less of a guess. It also elimates recovering faster than anything that whiffs.

It keeps the player honest.

 

[Lightning]

I think pressing punch should kill the guy instantly when I attack, cause its not fair if he has a chance. There is no way to survive a stun if you have to guess between 4 different attacks AND a throw that could beat any of your guesses.

 

[Jin Masters]

Another cop out answer that doesn't answer the question asked of you.




Reset the entire situation in their favor is a lot more than nothing.

Don't know if you knew but in Doa4 there where setups for people who like to low hold after there stunned.
Stun someone with a move that had low recovery and gives a lift stun and go for a low throw then an immediate fast mid.
This basically was an option select to beat people who love to low hold.
But the beauty of this that even if they didn't low hold your still at frame advantage.

For an example:
Jann Lee/ Hayabusa/ Hayate's 3p(counter hit or during stun) go for a low grab then do 6p
The beauty about that stun is that it takes longer to recover so even if they don't hold and slow escape your still at advantage.

Now to my knowledge they've added more recovery frames to holds in general so this should be more effective.
Have fun..

 

[damedame]

Go ahead and answer why low holds should have more defensive options then every other hold. Why should it have evasion properities that other holds don't get?

Umm... they don't. If you low DH you can be CB or launched.
Name one low CB or launcher? (I'm presently not aware of any. I know most chars have at least one mid launcher)

Low DH are far more susceptible to more powerful punishing options.

I personally find low DH a useful option for people who like to mix up highs/standing-throws.

 

[MasterHavik]

you can also throw a move that stuns. I can 4k or 6k someone for spamming low holds. It's actually a bad habit that can hurt you at higher levels.

 

[TakedaZX]

It's really fine where it is... higher leveled players don't have problems with it. If they did they'd say something. That's not to say you're a shit player either. I'm just stating the facts. In higher leveled play, using a low defensive hold as means to instantly a crush a high isn't very viable, you're probably better off throwing a a 2p instead for that 5 dmg, and usually that reset. Some get different advantage off that though, like Hitomi, who ends up at +1 instead of a neutral reset. Think about that.

Also remember that Low Throws generally do more damage than their standing counter parts. My example with Hitomi is her i5 grab standing is 38 damage, her i5 low grab is 48 damage, and unbreakable. As for her i7's, standing is 42dmg, crouching is 50 dmg). The reward is greater.

Low hold spam also gives way for you to throw out those more damaging mids anyway.

I mean I've fought low hold spammers and that's when I make them eat 3H+K spam til they get a clue, granted it's safe as hell for Hitomi.

The point I'm making is... It's not a big deal, at all. Really not at all.

 

[Django]

Something that executes at 0 frames and recovers at 18 is something that you can do with impunity.

it doesn't recover at 18, 1-18 is the hold window, 19-30 is recovery.
also it isn't impossible to react with the right throw, i done it in matches and even practice it in training with the CPU doing Random hold once stunned but i use Tina and looking for hold is rewarding so yea.

 

[Prince Adon]

Besides you'll find at a high level most people rather slow escape than to low hold. Slow escaping still keep you safe from standing throws(while stunned) and you can hold(if necessary) a attack you can see coming.

 

[DR2K]

...and now I see why Team Ninja backed out and nerfed the shit out of everything last minute once again.

Umm... they don't. If you low DH you can be CB or launched.
Name one low CB or launcher? (I'm presently not aware of any. I know most chars have at least one mid launcher)

Low DH are far more susceptible to more powerful punishing options.

I personally find low DH a useful option for people who like to mix up highs/standing-throws.

Ugh, so they don't do the things I mentioned? Because I can assure you, they do.

How are low holds any more punishable than the other holds? What point are you trying to make?

 

[Drake Aldan]

You're basically saying that if you ever hear a "HUH" during a stun, you just tap throw and get your Hi Counter.

That sounds great, but I don't know if that would be balanced. You think so?

 

[Batcommander]

I don't think low holds should be susceptible to standing throws; that's what low throws are for.

However, they should be susceptible to high attacks imo. I wish highs could act like EX highs when an opponent is in stun.

 

[DR2K]

You're basically saying that if you ever hear a "HUH" during a stun, you just tap throw and get your Hi Counter.

That sounds great, but I don't know if that would be balanced. You think so?

I'd like their recovery frames at least doubled, highs to hit them, or allow throws to put low holds in a special sit down stun. . . and the losing character has to wear a scrub cap for the remainder of the match.

 

[Drake Aldan]

A scrub cap?

Are you losing because someone is spamming low holds?

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Low holds have to recover fast enough so that if I low counter to avoid being grabbed I am at least at neutral frames. There is no point in making it so if I low counter to avoid a grab I'm still stuck in stun after they recover from their whiffed grab.