Marie Rose update will surely bring general changes

[Brute]

How about Zack? I say infuse him with the "having more tools that work well with the new features of this game" train and 4H+K bound back and making 8P a sitdown stun that gives him +20 or more on hit so he will be able to land a CB after it. Now a response to your first main piece of the post....

I don't know Zack well enough, but he has some of the best pressure/mixups in the game, with some brutal crushes, resets throws and other things to make him a monster. Pwnfosho could give a better breakdown, but Zack is hella-good.

JL: Hmm...nah he still has a enough to win. Yeah he gets bulldog, but you just gotta play mroe D with him this time. He still has his damage and his mid punch hold.

It's actually not a huge buff. The faster mid will incentive people to use it more, and so it actually puts the mind game slightly more in the defense's favor if the defender is going for precise reads rather than blanket moves. Since the 6P nerf I've noticed more Jann's using 4K as their opener. For me, I get more damage off an expert mid punch hold than an expert mid kick hold.

Tina: Yes, but she is going to need mroe than that to have a fighting chance in this game.

Tina's definitely one of the weaker characters, but she's underrated, imo. She still has "a fighting chance" even now. As long as she retains 364T and has enough delays to bait it, she'll be viable (plus the OHs, heavy punish throws, etc.)

Kokoro: How about some tracking to go with that speed bro?

I suppose if you wanted to give her an i16 tracking mid I'd be fine with that. Her speed nerfs are a more pressing and confusing issue, though.

Alpha: sigh...she is still too good? Can you explain this one?

Same old wrap
Half-life throw that's easy to bait out with tons of string mix-ups and 3 CBs all on different hit levels; Constant crushes (including her neutral stance sometimes crushing highs and 2nd longest-distance OH hold in the game); 9 frame jab and a jumping OH, etc.

Ein: Same Alpha, can you explain this one? Yeah he is limited and all, but he some of the best bounds in the game.

Bounds really aren't saving him. Beyond playing keepout, he excels nowhere others don't but better. Talk to Tenryuga or Zeo for a more detailed breakdown.

Ryu: Hmm.. all right. Does he need any speed buffs?

Not really. Personally I'd like 34KP/214P and 2P to be faster, but he doesn't need them. He just needs something for guard pressure that isn't an insanely telegraphed mid punch.

Marie Rose:uh...how do you know that? you got the arcade version of it already

I'm just fairly certain she won't have a Flower Garland Drop.

Return old ground game( which DOA we're talking here? DOA 4

5 vanilla

More cliffs are Izuna-able( ugh...no i don't want hear his annoying ass more than i have to.

Too bad. ;P

 

[JerryPlaysLOL]

Am I the only one who actually wants Eliot to be strong? I'm waiting for the day when Eliot is considered too strong or even bannable.

 

[David Gregg]

Am I the only one who actually wants Eliot to be strong? I'm waiting for the day when Eliot is considered too strong or even bannable.

You are not it's just that many Eliot players including myself have not been holding our breath for TN to make the changes needed. Rather than improve him, he was actually nerfed between 5 and 5U.

 

[Brute]

I didn't mention Eliot simply because I'm not familiar enough with him to know what recommendations would be ideal. Returning his gap-closing H+K kick to it's vanilla safety would be a start, however.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

System:

#1 Wake up kicks should should offer less advantage on NH, they should both be punishable on block and a wake up kick should never be fatal. Getting trapped in the corner after knocking down the opponent only to lose the match to a wake up kick is BS.

#2 Nerf counters again, recovery is still too fast.

#3 Make all low throws do massive damage on HCH. If low counters are going to be spammable give every character a way to deter people from using them. I think 95+ damage low throws would work nicely.

#4 Change the input for Tag CB or Force Outs. 214 and 236 are kind of awkward, why not use 4 or 6 seeing as the aren't in use now that tag attacks have been removed?

Character:

#1 EVERY SDS should guarantee a basic launch.

#2 More frame traps, still next to no + frames on block for most characters.

#3 More safe strings, most characters are way to unsafe.

#4 Either remove Helena's 6P FT completely or make it work all the time like before. Having it work sometimes and not others is just stupid.

#5 Remove tracking from Ayane's 4P and BT 4P. I don't care if she spins it's her BS get out of jail free card. It's fast and it launches on CH it shouldn't track too. Not al;l spinning moves track, just look at Helena's P+K.

#6 Make Helena safer in exchange for a damage nerf. She's never been a high damage character but in DOA5 her damage output has been slightly too high IMO.

#7 Make Helena's BT CB i20 instead of i23. It's too easy to SE her BT CB set ups due to how slow it is.

#8 Give rush down characters better running attacks, make moves like Hitomi's running P +1 on block.

#9 Increase the block stun on Helena's BKO 6P4P string. The opponent should have to read whether she will free cancel out of the second half, which is easy to do seeing as the string can't be delayed. Currently you are able to beat her out of the second 3in1 with specific attacks.

#10 Make Busa's 666P unsafe. If he gets free damage when it lands it shouldn't be -2 on block.

 

[Brute]

#3 More safe strings, most characters are way to unsafe.
[...]
#10 Make Busa's 666P unsafe. If he gets free damage when it lands it shouldn't be -2 on block.

Um...

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Um...

Lousy strings that have no mix up potential or don't grant much on hit should be safe, strings that have strong mix ups or offer great options on hit should be unsafe.

For example, Busa's 666P offers guaranteed damage on hit and is -2 on block, Helena's 66P offers a light stun and is -9 on block. If anything they should swap the safety frames around.

 

[Brute]

Lousy strings that have no mix up potential or don't grant much on hit should be safe, strings that have strong mix ups or offer great options on hit should be unsafe.

For example, Busa's 666P offers guaranteed damage on hit and is -2 on block, Helena's 66P offers a light stun and is -9 on block. If anything they should swap the safety frames around.

Don't play "swap move properties of Ryu and Helena" or I'm going to have to go over how absurd Helena's low pokes and string mix-ups are in relation to Hayabusa's.

 

[PLAtinum OswaLD]

havent been on this forum forever, and now the arcade version is coming out? wtf is a Marie Rose!?

 

[Brute]

wtf is a Marie Rose!?

a loli

 

[Batcommander]

I kinda dont want a patch until after the game has been out at the arcade for a while. Let more people play this for a while before they spend resources on another patch, i dont want Injustice style balancing here.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Don't play "swap move properties of Ryu and Helena" or I'm going to have to go over how absurd Helena's low pokes and string mix-ups are in relation to Hayabusa's.

She does have good low pokes and they are unsafe as hell, as they should be. She has got better overall string manipulation than Busa does and as a result everything she has is punishable. Even her strings that have no mix up potential are -9 on block.

If her low pokes were -2 on block I'd get the comparison. Helena has strong mix up options that are extremely unsafe which is fair. With Busa TN should make his strings that have poor mix up potential safe instead of having a move like 666P being -2.

 

[Brute]

With Busa TN should make his strings that have poor mix up potential safe instead of having a move like 666P being -2.

666P has no mix-up potential. Standalone poke. Safe. Just like you described. So they did exactly what you said, but you want them to change it.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Remove the guard break animation from negative guard breaks. It's so stupid looking.

Better yet, make all guardbreaks have plus frames on block. Negative frame guardbreaks don't make any sense at all.

 

[FatalxInnocence]

~ Make all guard breaks +frame

~ Fix the weird ground game where characters legs go through the person on the ground when they're just laying there.

~ Make Rachel's 4PP chain ( not sure what people call this here, but basically once the initial 4P hits, the 2nd P should be free, as in shouldn't be counter-able. ) I say this because since they've made her slower, I feel like people can just counter out of everything with her. Nothing chains, her guard breaks are all negative ( apart from 66K ) and since most of her things are mid punch... well she just needs something.

~ *cough* Give Rachel a loose hair option... >_>;; *cough* ( Probs never gonna let this go lmao. )

~ Make Kasumi's 9P~K a mid kick and not a high.... cause to me the whole 9P after hoshinpo is practically useless hahaha, but I'd like it not to be cause it admittedly looks awesome. Oh, also maybe 9P~T make that throw track.

Hmm... that's all I can think of on the spot... might think of a few things I'd like to see at a later date.

 

[JerryPlaysLOL]

wouldnt mind a game in which ayane didnt annoy the piss out of me. but meh. I've come to terms with the fact that the ninjas, namely the females, will ALWAYS be some of the strongest.

 

[PremeditatedTurd]

bikini's for marie rose pls

 

[PLAtinum OswaLD]

id still love to be able to tech throws like tekken, but im sure im alone on that, except when you punish a counter with a throw, shouldnt be able to tech that. also dont know where to start with tag, but i think it needs work

 

[Musourenka]

Return Kokoro's 1T to an unholdable stun. I miss that move's glory...

 

[Rawbietussin]

The return of the majestic PP2KP for Helena + new moves that makes use of 2KK animation (probably something that goes like 6KPKK and BKO 4PKPKK)

Oh and give her a white lace bow or loose light pink hair while you're at it.