"My sisters want to **** me!" - The Official Hayate Thread
- Thread starter TRI Mike
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Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Well, I too know what he has in the final build. But I've said my peace on him. 6 days players will see for themselves. When you begin to struggle as you face characters that by pass the stun system or has new tools that help them excel in the new system. Maybe it's something I missed/overlooked and I'll be patiently waiting to be corrected.
Hayate, last I checked literally has to play: stun, grab; stun, launch; punch punch, grab (ppG is pretty good in doa in general but all characters can do it), in no particular order. Now if I don't know anything I know DOA4. As a few weeks ago his play style screams DOA4. But eh, what do I know.
I can't wait to see the new technology with him
Hayate, last I checked literally has to play: stun, grab; stun, launch; punch punch, grab (ppG is pretty good in doa in general but all characters can do it), in no particular order. Now if I don't know anything I know DOA4. As a few weeks ago his play style screams DOA4. But eh, what do I know.
I can't wait to see the new technology with him
Perfect Legend
Active Member
Well, I too know what he has in the final build. But I've said my peace on him. 6 days players will see for themselves. When you begin to struggle as you face characters that by pass the stun system or has new tools that help them excel in the new system. Maybe it's something I missed/overlooked and I'll be patiently waiting to be corrected.
Hayate, last I checked literally has to play: stun, grab; stun, launch; punch punch, grab (ppG is pretty good in doa in general but all characters can do it), in no particular order. Now if I don't know anything I know DOA4. As a few weeks ago his play style screams DOA4. But eh, what do I know.
I can't wait to see the new technology with him
That is the way that you guys thought you should play him. In the history of DOA the stun has never been the most consistent way to get damage. Also just being able to sit down stun someone into a free launcher doesn't change anything besides adding just a little more damage from a safer poke. I feel sit down stuns and whatever stuns are being overhyped.
Also from what I can tell everyone still plays this game wrong since DOA4. I swear its like people don't listen. I'm not here to toot my horn but there is a reason that whenever I play a game I have very successful tournament showings.
And please realize that I was the only truly successful Hayate player in DOA4. Also all of you have no clue how Hayate plays in DOA3 either. DOA5 Hayate is a mixture of DOA3 and DOA4 hayate. NinjaCW told me he tried to tell you all that it would take me to show whats up with the character but of course no one listened.
I think that is quite hilarious.
And of course everyone is going to follow behind what I do just like before. And no disrespect to anyone but I have seen the videos and moves that I am pretty sure are hella unsafe no one punishes for free damage and you all are trying to hard to work the stun. Critical burst isn't that good and sit down stuns are good yea but they aren't end all be all.
Also Allan you say you know DOA4. Tell me then what is Hayate's single best poke.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
This is why you probably feel that Hayate is good mechanically in DOA5.
If Kasumi staggers you with PPK or 66PP she's getting a guaranteed launch from it (slow escaping is not a factor), just something off the top of my head. She can do more. We all of know of Jann Lee's Dragon Gunner business, plus he's a bigger monster if he gets your back to a wall. Eliot is at +20 from his parries, free launchers and his damage has been buffed. That's not neccessarily a sit down stun but it's a 0i move that by passes the stun system and grants him respectable follow ups/damage. I mean I know you know of these things so I won't bore you with going over things you already know. So the hype is real with certain stuns in the game. If these have changed in the final build, which I doubt, then everythings good to go more or less.
Hayate can do NONE of the above. Even his throw where he flips to your back (pardon me not knowing the notation for it at the moment), he gets nothing guaranteed. Not even on HCH throw. He's not scary when he has your back to a wall. The 9PP is a nice touch on hit, but that srting is unsafe if you dont charge the 2nd punch on block, which it cannot be canceld. The move was safe in DOA4. His holds are still the same, his advanced mid kick hold launches so that's cool.
Well, there was no correct way of playing DOA4 besides purely out guessing someone. That is not a solid gameplan or at least it shouldn't be. Sure you can get into someone's head and pretty much know how their going to react, but what happens when you play players that can guess on par with you?
Yup, 7 years of DOA4 people are going to play DOA5 just like it. It only makes sense. When players sit with the game and really learn it, then there's a new ball game. These pre-release videos/tournaments are going to be even more hysterical than what they already are.
Yeah, you are good no one's discrediting that. Not me at least. I just refuse to let your greatness cloud my judgement of something that I am highly capable of understanding and comprehending. Hayate is not good in DOA5 because he poorly uses the new mechaincs in the game's system. Again, if it is something I missed I will be happy to admit that and will publicly say I was wrong about him not being not good.
Ok, that's been noted by me years ago, I know you're nice with him. Never thought otherwise.
Well, you said in one of your posts in this thread or the other Hayate thread that Hayate's 1K was not good. When in fact it was good in DOA3.1, his 1KP floated the opponent for more juggle damage. Against a wall I believe it can be applied twice in a juggle depending on the character and the launch height. In DOA4 it wasn't all that great, but 3.1 it was. So would you be included in the comment that, "all of you have no clue how Hayate plays in DOA3 either"? Because I was not referring to DOA4.1 when I mentioned it before you dismissed it.
Now before you go and give me a Hayate DOA3.1 pop quiz. I'll tell you now my knowledge on him is very limited. Though I have played with him and against him in the game.
Chris never told me that, though he probably did say that. I also have said the samething about you, even about Hatrify and Zack who from the outside looks like he's suffering as well. I will be waiting to see how far you push Hayate. I just want you to realize the difference between YOU beating someone and you and the character beating someone. I know you will do great with him but, as far as I know, Hayate winning will rely 110% on a player's yomi game, a la DOA4. That will get very fatiguing when playing against players and characters that do not have to constantly do that.
Then again, you were consistent in DOA4. So you obviously don't mind it. More power to you.
I was also saying the samething when I put moves on the screen leaving Hayate at -8 to -15 which isn't very hard to do. I was really saying it when players were finishing Eliot's full fledge strings and no one would punish him for it. Yes, CB are useless, thanks to constant nerfing. No one said sit downs were end all be all they too have been nerfed, but they are for damn sure what any player should be fishing for.
6P, my dude.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
I remember seeing lots of 4F+K, thats for sure. The Hitbox was crazy. We all know Hayate's best poke is 6T though.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
4F+k is a crush move, didn't know you could poke with unsafe Crush moves. Yes, that move is nice but i didn't know it fell under the category of a poke. The move is unsafe, people just feared the follow up as you should, but that too is unsafe. If he backdashed from it however it's a 50/50 on throwing him. You dash forward as he backdashes and grab low for the crouch backdash or do a standing throw for a standing backdash. Better players are going to backdash from it the majority of the time and he can't counter blow you for missing your grab if you guess wrong.
With 6P; it's 12i 2nd fastest mid in the game, it can't be crushed, it causes a deep stun on CH, you could also setup people to get hit with it on CH by using some of his safe strings. Along with moves that leave him at neutral on hit (off the top of my head I only know of his 2P). My favorite is 9PP for a safe string and 2P for my neural hit. This is a poke move, Hayate's best one.
With 6P; it's 12i 2nd fastest mid in the game, it can't be crushed, it causes a deep stun on CH, you could also setup people to get hit with it on CH by using some of his safe strings. Along with moves that leave him at neutral on hit (off the top of my head I only know of his 2P). My favorite is 9PP for a safe string and 2P for my neural hit. This is a poke move, Hayate's best one.
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
Carl uses Hayate to his strengths which is why he excelled with him. He just knocked you down and kept knocking you down. No one ever used Hayate in that manner which is why they struggled. Hayate isn't about stunning someone and mixing them up or stunning you and going for uncounterable stuff. He stuns you and knocks you down, launch you, or throw you.
Most of his hits either launch you on normal/CH, deep stun which you can't struggle out of, or knock you down (at least the way Carl has always played him). Most people try to spam frame advantage and go for stun games. When Hayate stuns you he should be knocking you down, launching you, or throwing.
Most of his hits either launch you on normal/CH, deep stun which you can't struggle out of, or knock you down (at least the way Carl has always played him). Most people try to spam frame advantage and go for stun games. When Hayate stuns you he should be knocking you down, launching you, or throwing.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Yeah I know that. He stills play the same in DOA5. What seems to keep getting ignored when I say it. Is that this game is not DOA4 what Hayate was doing before with his movesets he's no longer doing. Either those moves are unsafe, turned into charge moves that can't be canceled; and they don't track. Or they have been removed or placed in his wind dash. Lol the wind dash only has 1 safe option out of like 5 moves in it.
I can see this debate turning into something I didn't want it to. So I'm done and I'll wait for this technology that Carl hits the community with for Hayate because I don't know shit apparently and that's fine. I'm here learn.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
That is why I liked Hayate in Doa 4. He could really use the environment I found. 2P into 6P is perfect bait if you know all your matchups. Every character's fastest mid is my favorite move for them.
Perfect Legend
Active Member
Allan Paris you are incorrect. 4f+k was his best poke. 4f+k in doa4 was a -5 frame move. unsafe?
You have much to learn.
If you try to hit me I can back dash away from your attack. If you try to grab I can hit you out of the grab. I don't see where this move is unsafe and if I hit you you have to tech immediately or I get to force tech you for a grab or attack you can't counter.
When you tech I get to do 236k, 4f+k, grab, 1p, 2k or 3f+k.
No disrespect but in DOA4 I am this character and I made him what he was. I also did the same with gen fu and am the reason everyone started picking up gen fu. Jann lee however was too terrible and only good in specific matchups like Ein where Gen Fu would have significant problems cause of range.
block 4k and get a free p6p
Also isn't it silly to doubt a proven tournament player when it comes to THEIR main character? Seriously? I'm not some scrub who just picked up the game lol
You have much to learn.
If you try to hit me I can back dash away from your attack. If you try to grab I can hit you out of the grab. I don't see where this move is unsafe and if I hit you you have to tech immediately or I get to force tech you for a grab or attack you can't counter.
When you tech I get to do 236k, 4f+k, grab, 1p, 2k or 3f+k.
No disrespect but in DOA4 I am this character and I made him what he was. I also did the same with gen fu and am the reason everyone started picking up gen fu. Jann lee however was too terrible and only good in specific matchups like Ein where Gen Fu would have significant problems cause of range.
block 4k and get a free p6p
Also isn't it silly to doubt a proven tournament player when it comes to THEIR main character? Seriously? I'm not some scrub who just picked up the game lol
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Yes, that SS is pretty good. It was even better in the alpha demo, way better. There are some strings/moves that his command SS cannot step and you have to use the SS that the game gives you (/ or /). The F is now a H we don't have a H+P+K simley/emoticons or whatever these symbls are called.
/ or /). The F is now a H we don't have a H+P+K simley/emoticons or whatever these symbls are called.
Chaos
Well-Known Member
I was reading some post about people saying that Jann Lee on DOA4 wasn't as good compare to his DOA 3.1 counter parts, I wonder why people say hes terrible on DOA4?
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
This may not be the exact words of DrDogg and Rikuto, but from what I took in, it was in DOA3.1, Lee's Dragon Gunner was deadly, and had some guaranteed follow ups, which were returned to him in DOA5, as for 4 though, he developed a large amount of unsafe strings and moves, as well as a dragon gunner with hardly any guaranteed follow ups. I'm sure some will correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I heard.
But be that as it may, not everyone is as gifted in the mind as you, which would make Hayate the real thinking man's Ninja, right?(ref. to the Ryu official thread)
Like I said before, I was hoping for something new but the only new things brought in were high straight punches,
that I think change height from high to mid(ppp(p), and p6(p), a new mix up for 4p, a couple of changed notations, a 1k that crushes and i suppose is safe(?), and a wind dash that may crush highs and can be cancelled into from a back dash that can cause whiffing. The best thing IS the wind dash if anything at all, and even then, all of the options are familiar/unsafe/useful but only to a certain extent, which means that it's all a guessing game if you take that risk, you're probably fucked. I know he's not brad tier but he's just not really cool anymore.
If you're going to use him still, that's fine, cause I'll be right there on the 25th, rocking Eliot, Hayate, Kokoro, and Zack regardless, but I just don't see it being as fun as it was.
Speaking of which, what's the frame disadvantages off of 4f+k, and the new wind dash version of it. Is it still spammable?(4f+k, bd, 4f+k, etc etc.)
Yes, that SS is pretty good. It was even better in the alpha demo, way better. There are some strings/moves that his command SS cannot step and you have to use the SS that the game gives you (
Yes. Yes we do... we've had it since before DOA5's announcement.
Perfect Legend
Active Member
I'm not any more gifted than anyone else. Also 4f+k was totally removed as a command from the game and only way to perform the move is wind dash kick and its now a unsafe launcher.
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
If you say so...
And I suppose I did ask that poorly, what's the disadvantage on the DOA4 one, and what's the disadvantage one the DOA5 one that comes from the wind dash.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Yes. Yes we do... we've had it since before DOA5's announcement.
Oh shit, I was looking too fast to find it then.
He's at -5 and left BT in DOA4. In DOA5 he's at -15 and left BT.