1) Online does count. It just has lag that can screw things up. But that doesn't mean all player skill goes out the window. And what THAT means, is that no, you don't get to just claim "online doesn't count" to make excuses for when you lose. Because hey, guess what, misreads happen offline, too. Only when a match is unbearably laggy to the point where you can't even move, does it not count.
Let's address this post one section at a time. I get what you're saying, but you need to look at things from the perspective of the offline, competitive, top player. It's a very different perspective compared to what you have, and it's not about being an elitist.
The first thing you're not understanding is that offline players aren't complaining about the lag or even losses. The ONLY problem is when people take online wins to indicate they are better than someone. Now, it's VERY possible that the online player is better. It's just that in the unstable environment of online play, it's not a good proving ground for this.
NBA games are not played outside in windy areas. Professional golf and baseball aren't played when it's pouring rain. What counts is when you play in the best possible conditions. That is not online.
2) Online community is generally better than offline, since the "ragers" are unique to the FGC in that they are present in both offline AND online. I mean, you can just look through this site (or this thread) and see that a lot of the "offline" players are elitist, and that turns a lot of people off from caring to try local tourneys and stuff. You get more "regular people" online, who are generally a LOT friendlier than the standard tourneygoer.
I can understand where you're coming from with this. However, keep in mind that our "elitist" attitudes don't crop up until an online player starts boasting about his online wins. To the offline player, this is where they are being disrespectful. It's something that does not happen offline and an argument that would not occur if the online players were a bit more humble about their online wins.
However, you saying that online players are friendlier tells me you haven't been to many offline events. I've had WAY more fun at offline tournaments than I've had dealing with rage quitters, pullers, people who pick EotE every single time, and people who win by the skin of their teeth, spamming lows that are virtually unblockable, then saying they're the best of the best.
It's about respect. After an online match, there's little respect from the opposing player in many, many cases (not all though).
After an offline match, everyone goes out to eat on the winner of the tournament. So many laughs have been had during the after-tournament meal that you completely miss out on online.
Aka, yes, online can be laggy. But "lag" doesn't mean "unplayable." Lag can range anywhere from minor framerate to completely unplayable. But unless its UNPLAYABLE, you don't get to just call mulligan and say online doesn't count, and player skill online means nothing. Just because you can't do your standard combos doesn't mean the game sucks, it means you do, switch tactics and adapt. If one thing doesn't work, try another. Its only when NOTHING works, that it goes into "doesn't count" territory. And "missed the timing" doesn't fall into "doesn't count" territory.
To you, "minor framerate" is completely playable. To a seasoned offline veteran who relies heavily on their reaction time, that's unplayable. I rely on my reactions as much as possible because I cannot stand guessing, especially in situations when I don't have to guess (blocking a low for example).
Online, in the very best possible connection for DOA5, you cannot block most lows on reaction. To me, that is unplayable. To a seasoned tournament veteran, that is unplayable. To you, that's fine and people just need to adapt. But I implore you to look at it from our point of view. Offline you can block that low on reaction, online you have to guess it's coming. When you react properly, you are never wrong. When you guess, you can and will be wrong. That's a huge difference.
Again, I look toward Helena. Even in the best possible online connection, she can mount a nonstop offense. There's nothing you can do about other than guess the proper hold and HOPE it comes out in time. Offline, I don't have to guess at all and I can play against her MUCH better.
Again no prove for anything you just said you just expect everybody to belief you lol. I would recommend we post-pone the discussion of this matter to a later date when we have more tournament results(online or offline). Maybe then we could have a more meaningful discussion. Because right now it's all just TALK with no prove or backup.
The issue with providing the proof that you seek is that most online players who talk, don't show up to an offline event... ever. It's only a very few online players (who talk) who actually show up to an offline tournament. In addition, the online players who talk, then actually show up and get stomped on, are quickly forgotten. I know it's happened many times in other communities, but I couldn't tell you the name of a single online player that this happened to because it was quickly forgotten and the online player is never heard from again.
You have to remember, the DOA community has a very small offline scene (we're trying to change this). Most of the players who show up to majors are online players because the community is 95% online players. But many of these players don't talk about how good they are in public. It's only in private rooms out of sight of most of the community.
For example, did you know that Hades has been saying he's the best Rig player? Did you know that he's never been to a major and refuses to go to one that's outside of his small regional area. He won't go to Final Round, he won't go to Winter Brawl, he won't go to SoCal Regionals and he won't go to any IPL events. Yet he claims he's the number one Rig player. Unless you pay attention to the Rig forums, you probably wouldn't even know that.
This is what I was talking about.. And then you people wonder why others don't want to listen. This attitude has to go. If you claim you're so knowledgeable, you should be able to explain things without resorting to aggressiveness. Going around calling people a nobody and saying they would be a good riddance is not exactly the best way to make them understand something. People are only open to understanding something when they are not in defense mode. By putting them there, you're achieving the exact opposite of what you want. Well.. Assuming you want the community of this game to grow anyway, because sometimes it really looks as if that's not really the goal here, but something else.
The first post in this topic welcomes players to online and agrees that they should play. It says nothing bad about online and only references the people who try to use online wins to prove their skill. It's not aggressive at all and tries to understand all points of view. Yet, as you can see from many of the replies here, the online players lashed out. So I could take your above statement and say the same thing about online players.
Pretty damn sure Maximilian does.
If you watch his stuff you'll see that not only is he NOT an online warrior, but he tells people to go to tournaments. If you ask him directly, he'll tell you that online is not a proving grounds for anything. The DOA community (and to a lesser extent, the MK community) are pretty much the only fighting game communities that still have this debate. Go post something about online having meaning on SRK and see what happens. If you think the offline players are disrespectful in this thread, you'd be shocked by the SRK reaction to this. It is simply not accepted ANYWHERE in the fighting game community.
If your sample size of online fights is large enough, and your winning percentage is high enough, that is a pretty good indicator that you are a high-level (skilled) player, and that you will probably win a good percentage of your offline fights as well.
I'll use my Helena example once again.
Any below average Helena player can rack up a win percentage of 80% or higher online. It's not difficult because she is almost impossible to interrupt online. With only a small amount of knowledge, you can lock someone down, giving them virtually no options to counter attack. If this same person played the same way offline, a skilled player would decimate them.
One more time... I'm not saying online players cannot be good. What I'm saying is that online is not a good way to prove this skill. Another quick example: 90% of the attacks in DOA5 are unsafe. Online, that number drops to about 15%. How is that a good indication of how good you are when you can't punish almost every unsafe attack?