Petition to bring back LEON as DLC!

Would you like to have Leon and Ein DLC?

  • Hell yes!! Bring back the Strongest Man in the World !

    Votes: 161 75.9%
  • No, let him die the desert from dehydration..

    Votes: 51 24.1%

  • Total voters
    212
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Takeda-sama

Member
Ignore him man .. He's a Troll.

How about making another Leon for DOA5 Contest !!! :D

Same rules as before, only since we're getting closer to Easter ... Easter themed Leon pics get extra points !!!
make the pic/vid/poem/t-shirt .. whatever...
Link it to TN's Facebook and Twitter (Show them you care!!)

(Haven't thought of a prize yet but I'll come up with something spicy ;) )

You pansies up for it ? :p
Haven't TN already said they don't intend to bring characters back as dlc?
 

Takeda-sama

Member
im sure we could say the same of Bayman,the grapples are legit Sambo but everything else i believe is straight up brawling
Well why don't we look at that then? Here's Emps own vid of Bayman combinations in doa5.
Aside from his double hammer fist attack, thing, Im pretty sure all of these techniques can be attributed to Muay Thai (knees, elbows) Karate (the axe kick and low kick) and conventional western boxing (Pretty much all punches). These just so happen to be the three main martial arts Sambo striking has been derived from, meaning apart from the weird double handed hammer attack thing, those moves are all Sambo techniques. His throws are all Sambo techniques too, mostly derived from Judo. So no, Bayman is not as inaccurate as Leon. He has the occasional striking anomaly but is for the most part of both his strikes and grapples, accurate. More than that, he is occasionally shown to swing wild when using boxing techniques such as his high angle smash (difficult boxing technique, essentially an uppercut at 45 degree angle). Thats because as a Sambo fighter he would dedicate much of his time to grapples and other types of strikes as opposed to a pro boxer who does nothing but boxing techniques, hence this swinging wild is also accurate for a sambo fighter. Now lets look at leon.
Leon here is shown to use some boxing techniques, a spinning back hand (kick boxing) which is accurate, however he is also shown to do a spinning back hand to the mid section (which is not a technique) his headbutt is accurate as head-butting is indeed legal in Sambo, although not usually done outside a clinch (note that Bayman has that counter where he clinches, headbutts and muay thai knees. Leons move is technically still Sambo but Bayman's is a lot more used in Sambo than a no clinch headbutt). His grapple at 23 seconds speaks for itself, no need to try and explain why that isn't Sambo, His double legged take down is part of Greco Roman wrestling and like his no clinch head butt isn't the most common technique ever but is a part of Sambo. He has the same axe kick as Bayman, again that's derived from Karate, most of the strikes are seen in Bayman's move set, at 1 minute it's pretty easy to explain why that grapple isn't Sambo. I've never seen anything like his final grapple in my life, Im not sure if it is a part of Sambo or not (though I have my doubts). His spear throw is obviously not Sambo either. So granted a decent portion of his move set is indeed Sambo, like, maybe 65%? Baymans would be about 95? A 30% discrepancy is major as far as I'm concerned when it comes to the move set.

** Also, Baymans critical stun at 1:59 in that video is called a burst strike and is a technique used by the KGB in their unarmed martial training. I don't know Leon's entire move set or anything but I don't think he has any burst strikes in his repertoire.
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
jann_lee__s_nerf_and_the_strongest_man_in_the_world_by_pltnm06ghost-d5s2htr.png


Posting it in this thread for justice !

Ghosty-J .. you have just lit a spark in my heart ... *Stares at the sky with a clenched fist and thinks of Roland.

Post it on TN's FB and Twitter and you got an official entry! :D
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
You compared two characters via Combo Video and Combat video. To make a better point you kinda need to compare the same kind of videos (preferably from within the same game too, and that Leon video is a terrible one to represent him btw).

Sambo is an amalgamation of at least 250 fighting styles with a huge emphasis on brutality and a serious drive to incapacitation through said brutality to joints and full body damage. The big difference between Leon and Bayman is that Leon is designed to be a short combo user that uses those combo setups to go into his throws, albeit more effectively than anyone in the cast, while Bayman has a significantly higher combo potential and can very easily never use a single throw in a match and be almost as effective as if he had used his throws.
If you look at Leon's throws throughout the series (and if you have been paying attention to things I've said about him) then you can see a lot of the same stuff that Bayman employs. Bayman's drop grab/tank roll grab was Leons when he debuted, he had those "face down to opponent" grab that Bayman does in E_C's video (has since been changed into the tackle into face smashing), his combo throws throughout the series have been about dealing joint damage followed by full body damage. I don't think you have spent time playing as Leon, let alone have tried to understand him.

He really is an advanced character to learn and really takes a lot of time to learn to effectively use him because he has such a low emphasis on strikes and because of how they have a ton of knockback/knockup. I've said it several times, and I'm sure most of you get the point now, that I've been playing Leon since I got DOA2 Hardcore in 2002. I struggled terribly to learn him (Hardcore also had a ridiculously difficult combo system compared to what 3 and later employed) but once I found some high damage combos into throws I began to get the full understanding about what a really effective way to play him would be like. Fast forward 8 years and I began playing DOA4 and saw some absolutely wonderful changes in Leon that I thought he would never have. His combos were easier to pull off but still had the emphasis to go into throws. He pretty much remained the same in Dimensions comapred to 4.
If you spend time only looking at his signature moves you will seriously miss out on what his take on Sambo is.

Sambo is not a style set in stone, it is an evolved art that relies on being able to fight against whatever you are put up against and how you do it is up to what style of Sambo you have studied in and how well you take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses.

Effectively saying, Hitomi shouldn't be in the game as well as she is a poor representation for Karate (minus how much she yells and her signature moves). La Mariposa shouldn't either becasue almost all her grabs and combo attacks are just absolutely ridiculous for being a Lucha Libre. They are around because TN caters to the pervert portion of their audience who loves young busty girls rather than the toned musclemen. The ninja takes on combat could be a form of Sambo and still be acceptable FFS because almost anything goes when it comes to them due to how much of their styles are made up (Hayate still retains a lot of Ein's movelist and Ein is a karate user, no Ein/Hayate had muscle memory BS is allowed in this one). The only people I know that can spin that much without getting dizzy are Dervishes.

If you don't want Leon back, get out of this thread (troll or not). This is a thread designed to bring awareness to Leon's absence from the cast and calls on people to work to bring him back, not to make wild accusations because you don't understand much of how a character works.

Edit: Saw your ** and yes, Leon had one (still has it actually) and a couple variations of it as well that aren't as good.
 

Ghosty-J

Well-Known Member
Posting it in this thread for justice !

Ghosty-J .. you have just lit a spark in my heart ... *Stares at the sky with a clenched fist and thinks of Roland.

Post it on TN's FB and Twitter and you got an official entry! :D

Glad I've made you proud :U

And I'd do that if it weren't for two things:
1) I don't have Twitter.
2) I don' have Facebook.

And I really don't like those two, so I'm afraid I'll refrain from entering the contest XP
 

Takeda-sama

Member
You compared two characters via Combo Video and Combat video. To make a better point you kinda need to compare the same kind of videos (preferably from within the same game too, and that Leon video is a terrible one to represent him btw).

Sambo is an amalgamation of at least 250 fighting styles with a huge emphasis on brutality and a serious drive to incapacitation through said brutality to joints and full body damage. The big difference between Leon and Bayman is that Leon is designed to be a short combo user that uses those combo setups to go into his throws, albeit more effectively than anyone in the cast, while Bayman has a significantly higher combo potential and can very easily never use a single throw in a match and be almost as effective as if he had used his throws.
If you look at Leon's throws throughout the series (and if you have been paying attention to things I've said about him) then you can see a lot of the same stuff that Bayman employs. Bayman's drop grab/tank roll grab was Leons when he debuted, he had those "face down to opponent" grab that Bayman does in E_C's video (has since been changed into the tackle into face smashing), his combo throws throughout the series have been about dealing joint damage followed by full body damage. I don't think you have spent time playing as Leon, let alone have tried to understand him.

He really is an advanced character to learn and really takes a lot of time to learn to effectively use him because he has such a low emphasis on strikes and because of how they have a ton of knockback/knockup. I've said it several times, and I'm sure most of you get the point now, that I've been playing Leon since I got DOA2 Hardcore in 2002. I struggled terribly to learn him (Hardcore also had a ridiculously difficult combo system compared to what 3 and later employed) but once I found some high damage combos into throws I began to get the full understanding about what a really effective way to play him would be like. Fast forward 8 years and I began playing DOA4 and saw some absolutely wonderful changes in Leon that I thought he would never have. His combos were easier to pull off but still had the emphasis to go into throws. He pretty much remained the same in Dimensions comapred to 4.
If you spend time only looking at his signature moves you will seriously miss out on what his take on Sambo is.

Sambo is not a style set in stone, it is an evolved art that relies on being able to fight against whatever you are put up against and how you do it is up to what style of Sambo you have studied in and how well you take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses.

Effectively saying, Hitomi shouldn't be in the game as well as she is a poor representation for Karate (minus how much she yells and her signature moves). La Mariposa shouldn't either becasue almost all her grabs and combo attacks are just absolutely ridiculous for being a Lucha Libre. They are around because TN caters to the pervert portion of their audience who loves young busty girls rather than the toned musclemen. The ninja takes on combat could be a form of Sambo and still be acceptable FFS because almost anything goes when it comes to them due to how much of their styles are made up (Hayate still retains a lot of Ein's movelist and Ein is a karate user, no Ein/Hayate had muscle memory BS is allowed in this one). The only people I know that can spin that much without getting dizzy are Dervishes.

If you don't want Leon back, get out of this thread (troll or not). This is a thread designed to bring awareness to Leon's absence from the cast and calls on people to work to bring him back, not to make wild accusations because you don't understand much of how a character works.

Edit: Saw your ** and yes, Leon had one (still has it actually) and a couple variations of it as well that aren't as good.
Why should combo or combat video make a difference? They still sample the exact same moves. That's ridiculous. The difference between Bayman and Leon is that Bayman has a Sambo move set whilst Leon has throws that would be physically impossible. There are certain throws and strikes that are the same as Bayman, yes. I said that in my original comment already. Whether or not he was better in doa2 is completely irrelevant. I'm looking at doa4 and judging whether or not his move set from the most recent game he was in is suitable to be called 'Sambo' and suitable for him to make an appearnance in doa5. How the hell am I looking at his signature moves? I used an in combat video where a guy was playing him online. The fact of the matter is that about 35 percent of Leons move set could not be called Sambo if hell froze over. Half his throws in Doa4 are not sambo or even sambo oriented. Hitomi is also a perfectly fine representative of karate. Of course you wouldn't know that, because you've probably only studied one of more than 10 major styles of karate if any at all. I'm not going to talk about La Mariposa because A) it is irrelevant to the argument and B) I don't have any knowledge of lucha libre, unlike Karate, Judo and Sambo. The ninja's use a mythical style and I've been over this with other people, so I'm not going to repeat myself here. Sambo is an actual style of martial art and it would be silly of TN to create a character supposedly using 'Sambo' who has 30% physically impossible moves.

** In response to the purpose of this thread, I was under the impression it was to try and get TN to reintroduce Leon in doa5, in which case TN would be required to decide whether they wanted to keep his move set the same or whether they wanted to adjust it so that it actually represents Sambo, so this is (whether you like it or not) factually relevant to the thread.

*** Furthermore I am not against Leon being reintroduced to doa5. I simply think TN needs to adjust his move set so that it better represents his supposed martial art before that happens. I also don't think TN would find all that work worth the trouble, but if they did it I wouldn't be against it.
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
OMG the walls of text over something so STUPID !!!
if you don't want him in the damn game just click no and BUZZ OFF !!!
You stated your stupid point. We stated that your stupid point is stupid. lets move on.

LEON CONTEST TIME! :D

Glad I've made you proud :U

And I'd do that if it weren't for two things:
1) I don't have Twitter.
2) I don' have Facebook.

And I really don't like those two, so I'm afraid I'll refrain from entering the contest XP

I sent it to their twitter lol

Also, I was thinking you should have made Leon say...
You gonna get nerfed, you Pansy!... lol

But still it looks so damn epic!
 

SilverKhaos

Active Member
Here's a more DIRECT question Takeda....

Why is Leon the only character you feel has to be absolutely realistic in his named style? (Putting aside the argument that he doesnt even USE sambo anymore...)

Bayman is just as unrealistic, its just that Leon is stronger.

heck, if anything, Leon fits DOA more than bayman, in that his moves are slightly stylized with more flair.
 

SilverKhaos

Active Member
What was Leon's deal with Zack anyway?

That's what I wanna know. I get the rivalry with Jan Lee, since both are out to prove they are the "Strongest", but Zack? What? They even had a tag team throw. The heck is his connection with ZACK?
 

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
Not even TN themselves know what the hell Leon/Zack deal was and just slapped them together for the fuck of it without bothering to flesh it out. most likely trying to emulate the comedic duo trope of the hardass serious older white guy teaming up with the wise cracking younger black guy as seen in the Men in Black movies
 
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