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Petition to bring back LEON as DLC!

Would you like to have Leon and Ein DLC?

  • Hell yes!! Bring back the Strongest Man in the World !

    Votes: 161 75.9%

  • No, let him die the desert from dehydration..

    Votes: 51 24.1%
  • Total voters
    212
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SilverKhaos

SilverKhaos

Active Member
Takeda-sama said:
I don't see the point in bringing him back when we still have Bayman, tbh. We already have a paramilitary fighter. There is no need for a second in the same game. Besides, they both do Sambo, a martial art of Russian origin, Bayman being from Russia. There is also no logical reason for TN to bring Leon back and not Ein. I don't really think there is any real reason to bring Leon back over Ein, or at all. I think Mila was a good addition to the game with a new style and personality. There isn't a real reason to bring back a character with a style that's still in the game who has a personality we've all seen before anyway.
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By that logic we should get rid of at least 3 ninjas, either gen fu or elliot, and either tina or bass.

If you have to distinguish, think of it this way.

Bayman: Assassin.
Leon: Commando.

Bayman is tactical and precise.
Leon just BREAKS you, tactics be damned.
 
Takeda-sama

Takeda-sama

Member
PJudge said:
By that logic, there's no reason for Gen Fu and Eliot to exist in the same game. Or multiple ninjas. or Bass and Tina. Having the same style doesn't mean that we need just one character to cover it. And Mila is a great addition, yes, but neither her or Rig should be replacements to Leon/Ein/Tengu.
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No, thats your understanding of my logic, not my logic. I'm perfectly content with the game as is and with the characters it includes. TN abandoned Leon as a character for a reason. All the ninja characters are popular trademarks to the game and they each utilize an imaginary style. Leon quite frankly would be 1stly difficult and time consuming for TN to revive and 2ndly would use an actual REAL martial art style that already exists in the game. It would be like putting Shun Di and Brad Wong in the same game -- silly. If characters have completely different moves then they can coexist in the game with ease. It would be EXTREMELY difficult to include Leon in the game again when Bayman is essentially a more realistic character who uses the same style. You are a FAN of Leon. For everyone else who is completely indifferent to Leon as a character, it would almost seem as if DOA was gonna do the same thing as tekken and include 15 chars who all do one style (cough. mishima style karate cough.) Sambo is a REAL MARTIAL ART and Leons move set is not an accurate display of Sambo compared to Baymans. Reviving a character entirely for the sake of a specific minority of the fan base is not in the best interests of koei, TN or the rest of the games fans, nor is the revival of a character with a pre-existing style the same as continuing to use characters with the same style who are already the most popular characters in that game. TN has done exactly what they should be doing with doa5 (aside from the evil netcode) by adding Rig and Mila; creating new characters with new personal stories, personalities and styles. Basically, my point is whether you personally like Leon Ein or Tengu is irrelevant. The question is whether or not bringing them back in doa5 would be beneficial to the evolution of the game and to the company who made the game. In regards to Ein and Leon at least I believe bringing them back to the game wouldn't provide a large enough benefit to the company to be worth bothering with. In terms of Bass, Tina, Eliot, Gen Fu and the ninja characters they are character who have existed from previous games and have immense popularity. There is no reason for team ninja to cut them, nor was there much difficulty in placing them in doa5.
 
Zeo

Zeo

Well-Known Member
Takeda-sama said:
snip.
Click to expand...
I agree with most of what you said except in the case of Ein. Ein was more popular then every one of those "immensely" popular characters you named (except Tina) and is a veteran from DOA2 who has just as much right to be in the game as a character like Eliot. Ein was a popular character used in both casual and competitive play. TN's goal is to get the game taken seriously competitively and to appeal to a casual audience, would Ein be a big enough benefit to merit "bothering with"? Yes.

For the people that used him and even the players that didn't main him say "I have no idea why they took out Ein". If we're playing that card Ein was more frequently used than half the cast. With a simple yet effective style and appeal to beginners, his addition would be more than worth the effort. If it wasn't, fans wouldn't always bug TN about why he isn't in the game.

Do I personally like Ein? Yes. Is that irrelevant? Maybe so, but if a characters worth is based upon their popularity and usage and how many people would buy said character if the effort was put in to create them and put them in the game, then Ein fits the bill and deserves the spot. Regardless of what anyone's opinion is.
 
Kronin

Kronin

Well-Known Member
I think that there are differents reasons for the return of a character in the game, and all seems me worthy: popularity, usage (in general or in tournaments), originality (of the moveset), ecc... The question is what is the priority of the developers for taking the decision.

Personally I would give the priority to the differences of moveset in the game and so I would put Tengu over Ein and Leon to return in the game, surely the most original characters between the three. Anyway I think that Ein was the character more used (personally him and Leon were my most used male characters).

PS: The funny thing about Leon is that, at the beginning of his career in the Doa world, he was put in the game to substitute Bayman: from what I know the result was that the majority of the (Japanese I think) fans protested for the absence of Bayman in favor of a character with the same moveset but just a difference design, so the Russian assassin make his return in the next installment of Doa2... today happens exactly the opposite.
 
Takeda-sama

Takeda-sama

Member
I do not believe Ein should have been cut (unlike Leon who did not have a moveset that accurately represented his martial art), but I personally do not believe bringing him back would be worth the effort now that he's gone on the basis that he would have to be remodelled to fit the new graphics and that his move set would be heavily revised to suit doa5 which would probably result a bunch of Ein fanboys (lets face it, there are a lot of them as you said yourself) crying about how he isn't the same as before and is worse than the old Ein. I just don't believe the risk would be worth the reward (assuming success) for TN. Potential failure would result in a large number of hours wasted, money likely down the drain and bad publicity for the series, something which cannot be suffered if TN intend to make DOA competitive.

Kronin, that is exactly what I have been trying to articulate.
 
Zeo

Zeo

Well-Known Member
I do not share the same views. As far as modeling goes Ein wouldn't have to be made completely from scratch (Unlike Leon) unless they chose to because his model is already in the game as Hayate. Being the same person, they have the same body build, face and everything, besides the hair I don't see what would need to be changed.

As far as doing the character justice being a risk, I wouldn't use that as excuse when characters like Kokoro, Eliot, Brad etc were tweaked and changed for the better while characters like Gen Fu remained completely the same while still being immensely strong. Why suddenly get cold feet about this character? Fans will always find something to complain about as it's in their nature. But the majority will see either their old main or one of the characters they liked to use, or that old Karate guy from DOA2 that they had on Dreamcast over 10 years ago, and buy him. That's what TN wants, and that alone enough to merit his return.

Long story short, it's hard to go wrong with Ein. They would have to really find some way to ruin him in order for his inclusion to somehow be a bad thing.
 
Takeda-sama

Takeda-sama

Member
I didn't really think about that. Hayate's model is already in the game, you're right. However, the fact remains that doa5 already has a karate user, just as it already has a sambo user. Whilst I will concede having been reminded that Ein is basically Hayate (and now I feel kinda stupid), that Ein would indeed be a reasonable choice for a revived character, I still would have to say a tengu with a revised move set would be the best choice as they could make something more unique and fresh with him style wise.
 
Zeo

Zeo

Well-Known Member
I respect that opinion but I still feel Ein is the best choice. The most popular and used character and the most likely for people to buy. As far as originality goes, who's to say they couldn't give him something more to tweak or seperate him from Hitomi. But even if they didn't, in a game like DOA5, all it takes is certain moves to completely change how a character is played.

Heck, Ein getting a guaranteed launcher off of something like his 8p alone would make him play completely different from Hitomi. In DOA5 what matters is guaranteed situations, and how you're put into them varies for each character. Ein simply having any guaranteed situations differentiates him from Hitomi, things like sitdown stuns, frame data, range and safety all take part in a competitive fighter and these things can be easily tweaked to turn him into a completely different character (moreso than he was already).

The point is, while Tengu does have a completely unique moveset, he isn't all that popular and would actually be a legit risk for TN to include. Whereas Ein is less work, more popular and likely to be used and bought, and in a game where the littlest things make characters entirely different, it would take very little to make his playstyle completely original. You can't go wrong with him.

From a simple playability and originality standpoint though, I will agree that Tengu is the better choice.
 
PJudge

PJudge

Well-Known Member
I see your point, Takeda.

If duplication of a style is the problem caused by Leon, then do as Kwon suggested earlier and just change his style. Every character has their staple moves, so as long as Leon has his, then I'm ok with a little change. But Bayman and Leon do play quite differently.

On the subject of originality, there is no question that Tengu is the most original style of the three, and I would whole-heartidly welcome Tengu back into DOA5. Any of the three actually, as they were all my mains. Leon is my favourite, followed closely by Tengu, and then Ein. I always found that it was way too easy to be good with Ein though. Popularity is only one factor though, Ein may have been the most popular, but if they bring one back, they should bring all three back.
 
Project Bokuho

Project Bokuho

Lady Helena's Pet
Premium Donor
This is a wonderful debate going on, I like the thoughts that everyone has made about the missing three (Leon, Ein and Tengu).
 
KwonJigglypuff

KwonJigglypuff

Well-Known Member
PJudge said:
See, when you first mentioned it, I wasn't really up for the idea. Actually seeing some of that, I can totally imagine Leon doing some of that, and it would work. Add the punt kick, mount tackle, and Arm Grenade, and that would be perfect. And the Javelin throw.
Click to expand...

Damn, the javelin throw. No one can do it. :oops:



...



WAIT.

thedesert.jpg
 
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