DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion

[iHajinShinobi]

1P+K K is a super strong approach tool for Ayane. 1P+K does not give it's attempted approach away "at all" due to how unpredictable 1P+K actually (you cannot tell if Ayane spin feints or will follow up). Safe at -5, super safe at -1 so she's in the same light negative as she is after 5P, except you're facing forward. Learn to fuzzy guard and you're golden.

Strong whiff punisher, footsies intercept tool, and strong approach tool all in one.

This is A LOT more reliable than the oh-so predictable and easily punishable 66KK4 approach for reasons above. Honestly, 66KK4 is garbage as an approach tool, amazing as pressure and threshold though. And good for whiff punishment.

But yeah, if you want another ranged approach tool with more range than that of 3H+K, 1P+K K is there.

 

[Aerospark]

I need to lay off the 66KK4 as an approach tool. OTL.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

1P+K K is a super strong approach tool for Ayane. 1P+K does not give it's attempted approach away "at all" due to how unpredictable 1P+K actually (you cannot tell if Ayane spin feints or will follow up). Safe at -5, super safe at -1 so she's in the same light negative as she is after 5P, except you're facing forward. Learn to fuzzy guard and you're golden.

Strong whiff punisher, footsies intercept tool, and strong approach tool all in one.

This is A LOT more reliable than the oh-so predictable and easily punishable 66KK4 approach for reasons above. Honestly, 66KK4 is garbage as an approach tool, amazing as pressure and threshold though. And good for whiff punishment.

But yeah, if you want another ranged approach tool with more range than that of 3H+K, 1P+K K is there.

I've always liked 1P+K~K due to its range, the feint from 1P+K, and the fact that it's safer than it looks compared to 236K. 66KK4 is awful as an approach tool and I either whiff the move or get swatted out of the air by random pokes. Like 3H+K, 1P+K~K's another move that I don't care if blocked and spam it like I'm a noob. I'm trying to find utilization of 33P as a ranged poke to mix-up with the amazing 3P poke but don't really like how the only follow-up is low because most people instinctually low block it (though it does have a reasonably large delay window), not to mention that 33P is fairly negative on hit.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

The difference between 1P+K K and 236K is that 236K is for whiff punishment, and not the latter as previously mentioned. It's just like using Ein/Hayate/Hitomi's 236P, except for the K button. I don't like 66KK4 as an approach tool either for the same reasons. I've used it a little more recently as that, just to prove that it's trash in that sense (so I hope folks who watched Cali Crush saw that, and took heed that 66KK4 is a no no as an approach), because it really is bad that way.

1P+K K, 3P, 5K, 3K, 3KK, 6P, 6P3, 3H+K, BT6K, BT4H+K, BTPK, BTPP, BT2P, BT3K P4P, 5P, 2K, 33P are all good ways to approach with strikes (and of course all of it have uses to varying degrees).

33P is best as something kept to a minimum so that it's not seen often during a match. But it is especially deadly on any stage with a slippery surface, the slip stun is really strong on counter hit and will guarantee a 4P+K launch. Leading up to about 94 damage.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Hey guys,

I've been looking into BT8K a bit since that move cannot be throw punished at all except by grappler's i4 throws, and has great hit priority over most strikes. It low crushes incredibly well and is in a state of tech jump throughout almost the entire animation, with the ending of the move leaving her in a slight "squatting" position. I love the hit priority of the move along with the excellent low crushing ability along with being mostly safe on block like 1P+K~K. However, the range leaves a little to be desired (it reaches only slightly more than half of 9K's range), and I don't like how Ayane is left BT'ed after the move is executed (though you can BT 2P after the move hits to try and maintain pressure). However, the move is a few frames faster than 9K and beats out WUK's better.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Yeah, recovery on BT8K is pretty nasty, however, so it makes it very difficult to utilize as anything more than just a low crush. 236K is also a low crush.

 

[LunaKage]

I too experimented with BT8K as a low crush. It works really well, however there's nothing else about it that makes it particularly useful. I mean, if it launched, then yeah, I'd take the chance to throw it out every once in awhile, but I just don't think it's uses and reward outweigh it's negatives.

imo at least.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I think BT8K is just meant to be a brutal low crush, though it seems to be so successful online (especially 3KK6K -_-).

I've been taking a look at 64T~236K, I.e. Cannon Drill Kick after Ayane's beautiful advantage throw and it deals fairly hefty damage for a single-strike move. Close Hit + Back Hit on top of having large blast-back range (Minimum 64 damage if used in open space). At a wall, the move seems to be particularly deadly easily netting over 100 dmg on any weight. A decent option against Super Heavies.

 

[Aerospark]

Lmao dumb question, but I've never actually studied the whole "Okizeme" "Sabaki" and "Vortex" terms and everything related to them and what they mean (whoops), but what do they actually mean and how do they work for Ayane? :||

 

[Lady Tengu]

I really love Ayane's spacing game TBH. I just picked her up and don't know any CB Set ups only ,,, and I dont mind it is just that its not safe..care to help me out anyone?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I've been taking a look at 64T~236K, I.e. Cannon Drill Kick after Ayane's beautiful advantage throw and it deals fairly hefty damage for a single-strike move. Close Hit + Back Hit on top of having large blast-back range (Minimum 64 damage if used in open space). At a wall, the move seems to be particularly deadly easily netting over 100 dmg on any weight. A decent option against Super Heavies.

Yeah, it's been talked about in Vanilla for the same reasons. It's always been a decent option, I in particular never use it because I prefer the mix up and vortex pressure I can dish out from a 64T over raw damage. But that's just my preference alone. 64T > 236K is a fine option on heavies as you said though.

Lmao dumb question, but I've never actually studied the whole "Okizeme" "Sabaki" and "Vortex" terms and everything related to them and what they mean (whoops), but what do they actually mean and how do they work for Ayane? :||

Sabakis are strikes that have the ability to parry strikes (highs, mids, high punches, mid punches, etc) during their active frames, or at the start of their active frames. Leifang's 236P can do this, for example.

Okizeme is a japanese term describing the ground game (and sounds better), and is your mix up when the opponent is on the ground and is getting up (whether they tech up or were forced up). You can see an example of this from my video around the 0:43 mark, when I knocked Mila down with 6K2K and forced her up with 2H+K;

The 6K2K sets up the hard knockdown and of course you can time your 2K from the string however you want, so you can choose the pacing of the opponent's knockdown. If they tech, Ayane's at +16 frame advantage so 66K (66KK4) becomes unholdable, but the fact of the matter is that you're at +16, which is a solid advantage. If they don't tech, you can generically force them up with 2H+K to be at +18 and mix up from there (you have a strike and throw mix up).

Vortex means mixing up on 50/50s that put the opponent into the same situation over and over, while occasionally using another set up that can force the same 50/50s. You can see an example of this from my video here around the 5:48 mark. I'm looping certain set ups for the same sequence over and over to keep momentum and mind fuck the Lisa player;

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I really love Ayane's spacing game TBH. I just picked her up and don't know any CB Set ups only ,,, and I dont mind it is just that its not safe..care to help me out anyone?

There really aren't "any" particular Critical Burst set ups to rely on with Ayane. I mean, there are some I have that no one else really uses (and they are not in my combo video), but I don't use them myself because the character doesn't need them, at all.

Critical Burst set ups you'll see a lot of other Ayane players using online often are all pretty generic stuff, nothing unique.

Skip up to 27:00 if you would like to see some other Critical Burst attempts;

 

[iHajinShinobi]

In response to 236K after 64T near walls, yes, this is amazing, lol. 64T > 236K > PP6PK does 111 on a normal wall splat from close hit, and 121 on an electric wall splat from close hit. And as @Force_of_Nature mentioned, the 64T > 236K is universal (so is the PP6PK wall juggle afterward).

This gives me access to all of my wall okizeme as well. Me likey.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

In response to 236K after 64T near walls, yes, this is amazing, lol. 64T > 236K > PP6PK does 111 on a normal wall splat from close hit, and 121 on an electric wall splat from close hit. And as @Force_of_Nature mentioned, the 64T > 236K is universal (so is the PP6PK wall juggle afterward).

This gives me access to all of my wall okizeme as well. Me likey.

. It's pretty nice isn't it?

 

[Red dragon]

morning guys, its been a while,

question, I heard that since some of the updates to doa5u, ayane has become so unsafe in her move list that a good chunk of people have dropped her altogether.

True or false?

Its been a while since I've been on so i was wondering.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

morning guys, its been a while,

question, I heard that since some of the updates to doa5u, ayane has become so unsafe in her move list that a good chunk of people have dropped her altogether.

True or false?

Its been a while since I've been on so i was wondering.

That's 100% false, Ayane in DOA5U is a lot safer than she's been previously, and this is her at her finest thus far.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I really love Ayane's spacing game TBH. I just picked her up and don't know any CB Set ups only ,,, and I dont mind it is just that its not safe..care to help me out anyone?

Was at work earlier so I glossed over this a bit. Vying for CB's with Ayane is kinda unnecessary and is likely an unoptimal way to play her due to her really strong Stun-Launch setups. I usually tend to like CB setups that end with BT PP6K being the final hits because 66K & BT PP6K lead to Lift Stuns, which are un-staggerable (I.e. can't be SE'd). 4K~66KK4~BT4H+K is also alright due to the soft SDS off of 4K requiring an SE to be able to block or hold the 66KK4 (which is +1 on block anyway). However, one thing I generally don't like seeing is when Ayane players always try to set up BT4H+K as if it being a Mid K means that it won't be held as often as the FT CB. Going for CB with someone like Pai for example is more meaningful because she has numerous ways to guarantee or near guarantee them, whereas Ayane's CB set-ups are just typical 50/50 CB or launch.

As for 4K, when you connect it for an SDS, try 4P, or 4P+K (when closer) after it for near-guaranteed juggle damage.

morning guys, its been a while,

question, I heard that since some of the updates to doa5u, ayane has become so unsafe in her move list that a good chunk of people have dropped her altogether.

True or false?

Its been a while since I've been on so i was wondering.

I don't think anyone has dropped Ayane as a result of how she is in DOA5U. Like Hajin said, the 5U iteration of Ayane is the best that she's ever been. However, there was at least one person that dropped her back in DOA5 Vanilla as a result of her ridiculous 66KK4 being +7 on block getting nerfed in the first patch *coughsPLcoughs*. However, there aren't that many Ayane players out there that REALLY dedicate to her, though she's used extremely often online. Her changes from Vanilla to 5U have essentially not contributed to people dropping her.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Bringing up a point in history (and am not bragging by any means), but the Ayane forums were beginning to be a mess with lots of whinning and complaining when 5U's release was near, and even during release. If I hadn't said anything about her changes and how I've viewed her balancing, then the disturbance wouldn't have died down.

I remember when everyone was saying she's nerfed so bad because her 3H+K wasn't a sitdown stun that guaranteed 70+ anymore (when in reality, her 3H+K has a lot more bound launch juggle potential and even okizeme mix up), and said her 4P was bad (launch height was lower but it still retained it's crush properties).

No one bothered realizing that she received a Fubu flip with faster recovery, 1P+K back spin that comes out instantly as opposed to 11 (took 5 frames to execute), her side step P being BT cancelable, a side step P+K that leaves her in BT stance and has amazing mutli-purpose usage. Her side step K actually got buffed to being a sitdown stun as her 4K is (SS K was not a sitdown stun in Vanilla at all).

The fact her back spin notation was changed gave her access to Korean Back Dashing, which greatly buffed her movement.

4P+K has a higher launch height, don't even get me started on how good her P4P and 6PK are. Not to be rude, but the moment I finished my wall of text at that time, niggas read and instantly shut the hell up, lol. And since that time, @Force_of_Nature, @Gill Hustle and I have just been leveling up and displaying excellent Ayane play offline. And contributing a lot of good tech, so have @Ayanes80085Lover, @Ael, and @Ayane.

 

[Aerospark]

How do you Korean Back Dash? :0

 

[iHajinShinobi]

How do you Korean Back Dash? :0

The input is 214214 x n (x n means repeat in succession), that's how I do it. That fast backdashing you always see me do, that's korean back dashing.